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To: palmer

[[Same way that 0.028% CO2 warmed the atmosphere before mankind was ever in the picture.]]

Psssst- warming happened FIRST- then CO2 rose (and it was much more than 0.028%- CO2 was 1200 ppm, ad there was still cooling and warming during those periods)

[[If you look carefully at the lag you see it is not just lag but overlap]]

I’ve looked at the ice core sample results nd there is no lag- the samples are clear- CO2 rose well after temps rose

[[There is also no scientific dispute that CO2 causes warming.]]

Sure none among the government sponsored LIARS- but there is PLENTY of scientific dispute about CO2 in the amounts present In the atmosphere being capable of causing warming- There is NOT enough of it to capture enough heat, and back radiate it to earth to do ANYTHING regarding global temperatures- Temps rose ALL on their own- then CO2 rose, while temps were still on an upward trend-

[[The only dispute is whether an increase in CO2 from present levels will cause serious warming.]]

Nonsense- there is still the dispute that CO2 in our atmosphere at such small amounts is the cause of climate change

You sound like the LIARS who claim “The issue is settled” (because we say it is so DESPITE the myriad of evidence against it being settled)

[[The main reason is that the models are wrong, they presume that the warming is always amplified by increased water vapor. But water vapor is a function of the planetary weather, not temperature.]]

Oh really?

from your own type of website, NASA no less:

[[Water Vapor Confirmed as Major Player in Climate Change

Water vapor is known to be Earth’s most abundant greenhouse gas, but the extent of its contribution to global warming has been debated. Using recent NASA satellite data, researchers have estimated more precisely than ever the heat-trapping effect of water in the air, validating the role of the gas as a critical component of climate change.]]

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html


103 posted on 09/02/2015 9:25:30 PM PDT by Bob434
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To: Bob434
The NASA site does not dispute what I said which is that water vapor is controlled by the weather regime. Among the many reasons we are in an ice age (although interglacial at the moment) is that Antarctica is cut off from Australia, India, etc and can hold lots of ice. Greenland has been moving north and gaining ice. The Isthmus of Panama is closed cutting off the Pacific from the Atlantic causing more cold currents, etc. The little bit of CO2 we do have causes welcome warming in this environment. There is little doubt that without CO2 the planet would be mostly dry and frozen.

What it all adds up to is that geography, greenhouse gases like CO2 and solar activity determine the weather regime; the prevailing pattern of highs and lows, average dips in the jet stream, average strength of storms and thus the average water vapor. NASA says CO2 is a major player in "climate change", but that is missing the point. It is misleading because the climate is not changing. The reason for that is that geography is not changing, the sun isn't changing (much), and thus the weather patterns which dictate climate are not changing.

The level of CO2 is a little low as pointed out in the 100 reasons link that you posted. Any rise is welcome at this point. The current level keeps us from becoming a planet of ice, but a change in the level doesn't do much. The level changed a lot as recently as 8000 years ago and there was no detectable temperature change.

There is still a possibility that the rise in CO2 is natural, nothing is certain in science. But there are no natural causes that explain the rise, not vegetation, not volcanoes and not ocean warming. None of those are strong enough, even combined, to explain anything close to the rise we have seen and see every year (2-3 ppm per year which would require a large percentage of deforestation and/or hundreds of large volcanoes (every year) and/or 0.2-0.3C of ocean warming per year to have happened centuries ago. There is no evidence for any of those things.

106 posted on 09/03/2015 3:04:44 PM PDT by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet into FlixNet)
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