Posted on 07/20/2015 1:38:53 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Link only due to copyright issues: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/07/19/donald-trump-john-mccain--politics--self-destruction/30384747/
Change your tone and maybe they will.
Keep your tone and I will see you gone.
LOL...
Laz, answer the questions asked and it will be fine. BTW, I am sure you got after the one Trumper who called a lady a bitch last night, right?
Oh, no, your righteous indignation only goes to your opponents. Got it.
Now, ready to see how REAL dialogue works? I look forward to engaging with R-Dem
You do not play victim very well. People answer you and answer you, and then you ask the same question again. I've seen it.
R-Dem, it is funny how many people try to marginalize those who they disagree with. Laz, etc, are intellectually dishonest...it was the TRUMP supporters, and you can verify this one posts other than mine, who START the flaming and name calling.
Once I figured out you were a troll, I stopped any name calling whatsoever, stuck to calling you out for your trollery, and yet you kept on with name calling. I don't really care, it doesn't exactly wound me (LOL), but, and I repeat myself.....
You do not play victim very well.
Incorrect. My indignation, which is indeed righteous, remains focused on those whose demeanor of aggressively-combative postings, unnecessary vitriolic responses, and excessive mockery damages the forum.
Now, ready to see how REAL dialogue works? I look forward to engaging with R-Dem
Once upon a fleeting time ago -- that time has passed -- I might have engaged you in a reasonable dialogue. I have no such intention of doing anything of the sort with you any more, for I am convinced you are only here to troll and disrupt.
Fair enough. I support the truth. So let’s start with some: I have no candidate and will probably not vote. I believe that when all is said and done, the uniparty will get what the uniparty wants, and that is a nonchoice between Jebito and piaps.
Assuming that we both agree that such a nonchoice would be less than ideal, how do you figure that Trump being in the race is not hurting jebito’s chances?
So, Laz, whenever I posted a question for Trump or even a vanity, who started the vitriol?
Go ahead, do your work...maybe, just maybe, you will learn something.
BTW, you only answered one question and always couched it with “but I support Cruz...”. I asked other questions too...R-Dem is interested in engaging in those. See, how that works?
Btw, quid pro quo. I’m happy to answer questions as well.
Truth is usually fired in the crucible.
Good questions....I do think you should vote. I think I made fun of you for that before ;-)
I agree with you on the uniparty thing. What bothers me about people on FR is that they think Trump will clean house. I would like to ask...if Trump has given to many of the Congress critters in DC, wouldn’t be owe them something as well? If so, that would hurt his business...would it not?
Jeb isn’t being hurt at all...none of the RINO’s are. That is the rub. Jeb is still polling strong (if you agree with the polls) and Rubio is holding his spot. CRUZ and others are being hurt by Trump. Their polling data reflects that.
Besides, if Trump were serious about Jeb...shouldn’t he focus his attacks on him as opposed to McCain who isn’t even running? Or Linda Graham who is irrelevant?
BTW, thank you for engaging. It is FAR more than what others who support Trump on here do to their opponents.
“If trump has given so much...”
I think it’s plausible that being a man of business, he is in effect forced to make “contributions” in order to preserve his business interests. One point that I’ve made before is that the total amount he contributed to rats over many years was relatively small as compared to his total wealth. Actually chump change when it comes down to it. Now what is chump change to you or me is a lot different than it is for someone doing billions.
The impression it left me with was “these bastards sure work cheap.” As for quid pro quo expected, can you imagine some politician trying to make good on that now? Not gonna happen.
I think he has already made the choice to let the chips fall where they may with regards to his business interests. He probably has structured his affairs to minize the damage.
I agree that the attacks should be on other candidates, but in his defense I think he chose targets of opportunity. In that sense, I think that mcinsane was merely the useful idiot. Widely hated, comvenient. If I’m correct, what I think will happen from this point on is that Trump will actually lay off on the attacks. He’s proven his point: he’s willing to fight. What I think he’s trying to transition to is the “Donald Trump is presidential” image.
You’re welcome and thank you. I hope to learn something.
My point was not how much has has paid out for business interests...it goes both ways.
But, does he still owe people in Congress for his business ventures? Do they owe him for contributions? How would that play out? Who, if either party, would wield the influence and to what end?
I don’t think Trump minds losing a little business....his empire is big enough that losing a billion or 2 won’t kill him. But again, WHAT is his desire at 70 to run for President.
The problem with attacking people like McCain is that until he mentioned the VA stuff, it was personal. Same with Graham and Perry. McCain is despised, but the best way to beat him is in the primary. Speaking of which...WHY would Trump support another candidate when we have one running already? Wouldn’t that dilute the chance to beat McCain.
Herein lies the other issue with Trump...he is largely undisciplined. If someone gets under his skin, he will go on the offensive. This is his biggest weakness and he might misstep before the end. Will he do the same in Washington?
“My point was not how much has has paid out for business interests...it goes both ways.”
Agreed. Quid pro quo.
“But, does he still owe people in Congress for his business ventures? Do they owe him for contributions? How would that play out? Who, if either party, would wield the influence and to what end?”
I don’t think we’ll ever really know all of it. i think that his candidacy, in a large way, probably wipes a lot of that clean. Neither side really has as much leverage to press the point.
Also, how is a business deal all that much different from any political deal? What does politician X owe politician Y ? In the fullness of the next 14 months, assuming DT is still in the race, I’m sure that we’ll find out exactly how many times he has picked his nose, let alone any embarassing business dealings.
” But again, WHAT is his desire at 70 to run for President.”
I don’t know what’s in the guy’s heart, so all I can do is speculate. Patriotism? A realization that your life is coming to it’s close snd you want it to have meaning? Ego? A belief that you can do better? I’m curious on this point as well, so I just bought one of his older books to get a glimpse of what makes him tick.
“The problem with attacking people like McCain is that until he mentioned the VA stuff, it was personal. Same with Graham and Perry.”
Don’t think it was a mistake at all. I think it was a trap. A carefully laid one. Mcinsane, Linda, and Perry were just the convenient idiots who took the bait. Notice what he did in both the border stuff and the VA. I can expand on it more if you like, but it was a variation on an alinskyite tactic.
“Herein lies the other issue with Trump...he is largely undisciplined. If someone gets under his skin, he will go on the offensive. This is his biggest weakness and he might misstep before the end. Will he do the same in Washington?”
I respectfully disagree with your premise. Stupid, undisciplined people don’t become multi-billionaires. They might inherit it, but they don’t make it.
Look at this in a different way. Just for grins, let’s say that the insults and the taunts and the gaffes were part of an act. Intended to gain a reaction. The reaction attracts attention. At the point where the attention is focused, DT pivots and brings up an issue politicians are generally ignoring but has wide populist appeal and consensus. Issues maybe like the border needs to be secured and veterans are being treated like dirt.
Ok, good questions and if you have others from my previous posts (those that Trump supporters wouldn’t answer) please ask. Now, to respond to you...
We know Trump has made bad deals. It is the nature of the beast. To his credit, he persevered. I like that. More important...he boasts about his war chest....which is fine. However, one thing that strikes me as missing is the fact that IF his networth is over 9 billion, WHAT will he do about salary while in office?
My point with the business dealings is this...many who support Trump on here, including the Donald, say that because of his wealth, he can’t be bought. But, he has business dealings all over the country and certain restrictions by the Government, etc, can hurt his empire. Can he be influenced this way?
I ask about why he is running for Prez now. Why not take out Romney? Obama was the same then...why now with our deepest and best bench in a long time? If he believes in he Conservatism he preaches and he is such good friends with Cruz, why get in and in turn, hurt Cruz (at least for now)?
What did his rant on the VA get him? Ok, he opened up a hotline, but has anything been done about it? Aren’t McCain and others STILL on the committees and still doing nothing? Policy attacks are one thing, but commenting on glasses, etc, is just petty. He has commented on Hillary some, but most of his venom and back and forth have been toward the RINO’s...why not focus like a laser on the Dems? Call some of their leaders out as well...
Undisciplined might have been the wrong word. I think, if challenged too much on certain things, Donald will go off the deep end. His ego, no matter what he says, won’t allow him to be shown up by anyone. We shall watch and see, but my thought is that THIS will be his undoing.
One last thought...Freepers are fond of saying “if the media ignores you, they fear you”. Of course, if you are taking flak, you must be over the target. My concern is WHY the media is so enamored with Trump. I think that unless he did something provocative, that they’d want to ignore him...especially if they feared him. WHY is he such a focus in the media...
You bring up some good questions and I’m strapped for time. Want to think about It thoroughly. Will probably need to do it piecemeal. Apologies upfront.
“We know Trump has made bad deals. It is the nature of the beast. To his credit, he persevered. I like that. More important...he boasts about his war chest....which is fine. However, one thing that strikes me as missing is the fact that IF his networth is over 9 billion, WHAT will he do about salary while in office?”
I assume that like most wealthy people, a significant part of his assets are in passive investments (stocks, bonds,etc.) that don’t need his active involvement. If he goes into office, he will have to live off that as he won’t be able to manage his assets as a practical or even legal matter. I expect he’s going to have to live on that. Poor guy. Only 100 mil a year to live on! LOL. He might be the only person in presidential history who sees his living expenses go down as a result. No need to pay for planes, security, etc.
“My point with the business dealings is this...many who support Trump on here, including the Donald, say that because of his wealth, he can’t be bought. But, he has business dealings all over the country and certain restrictions by the Government, etc, can hurt his empire. Can he be influenced this way?”
Of course the answer is I don’t know, but i can speculate with the best! The guy is 70 years old or will be soon. That’s retirement age. He’s going to be handing the reins over soon anyway. He has made it very clear that he plans to hand it to his kids. Maybe this is an opportune time to hand the kids control?
“I ask about why he is running for Prez now. Why not take out Romney? “
Again I don’t know. It’s quite possible that it was a combination of reasons. Perhaps it’s related to your earlier questions about his business interests. Maybe the kids weren’t ready? His youngest is now an adult. I also see some very pragmatic political reasons. First, it is very unusual for a sitting president to be defeated in a re-election. I think it’s happened a grand total of 3 times in the last hundred years (FDR, Reagan, Clinton) The odds are very long. Perhaps he didn’t sense the outrage necessary to win.
What I think is very clear is that he seriously considered it, planned it, wrote his campaign polemic (published in 2011) then decided against it.
“Obama was the same then...why now with our deepest and best bench in a long time? If he believes in he Conservatism he preaches and he is such good friends with Cruz, why get in and in turn, hurt Cruz (at least for now)?”
That question cuts both ways. Why didn’t the better parts of the bench run in 2012? In some obvious cases...Cruz, Paul...it was because they hadn’t been elected or were running themselves for senate. I think Fiorina was fighting cancer at the time. I would also beg to differ on the rest of the bench. A few have potential, but most are just drones.
As for cruz...don’t get me started. Friends or not, why would DT be responsible for cruz? Why should he step aside for cruz’ ambitions? To avoid getting into an unnecessary argument over cruz, I’ll just leave it with this observation: the person primarily responsible for Ted Cruz’ political fate is Ted Cruz.
To be continued....
“What did his rant on the VA get him? Ok, he opened up a hotline, but has anything been done about it? Aren’t McCain and others STILL on the committees and still doing nothing?”
He has had almost 2 days. The problems at VA have been there for decades. It’s gonna take some time. He just lit a blowtorch under the politician’s asses. I think he’ll get results.
” Policy attacks are one thing, but commenting on glasses, etc, is just petty.”
See my previous comments on why I believe he is doing that.
“He has commented on Hillary some, but most of his venom and back and forth have been toward the RINO’s...why not focus like a laser on the Dems? Call some of their leaders out as well...”
In due time, and if by some miracle he is the nominee, he will. You’ll probably hate this answer, but I’ll give it anyway: his immediate concern is not piaps or bernie. His immediate concern is being the nominee. Sad to say, he has to defeat the other gop candiates first before he gets a chance at the vile witch. One of hundreds of reasons why our electoral politics suck.
“Undisciplined might have been the wrong word. I think, if challenged too much on certain things, Donald will go off the deep end. His ego, no matter what he says, won’t allow him to be shown up by anyone. We shall watch and see, but my thought is that THIS will be his undoing.”
It is a risk. I personally think his biggest risk. Part of this wretched process is that candidates ARE grilled. They ARE challenged mercilessly. If he isn’t disciplined, we’ll see it. We have 5 plus months till the first primary.
“My concern is WHY the media is so enamored with Trump. I think that unless he did something provocative, that they’d want to ignore him...especially if they feared him. WHY is he such a focus in the media...”
I think you answered your own question. He’s provocative and “if it bleeds, it leads.” They’re in the biz of selling eyeballs. It’s like the joke from Prizzi’s Honor: they would sooner kill their children than part with money. And they LOVE their children. Trump sells.
I am headed out of town, so I will respond later.
These are the same questions I was asking Laz, etc...before they started the name calling. But these questions are valid for our candidates.
Thanks agian!
Safe travels! Chat again soon....
Gotta cover a shift on another board?
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