Confederate Flag Opposers, Supposedly Uneducated

Alfonzo Rachel ^ | 06/30/2015 | Alfonzo Rachel

[celmak]

The inner democrat really comes out when it comes to the confederate battle flag. Those who wave it say they support your right to free speech as long as it agrees with us. Because if you disagree with us then you’re just uneducated. I’d expect that from democrats. It’s sad to hear that from republicans defending a flag born by democrats waved in battle against them and the United States. And I agree that democrat voters who oppose said flag are uneducated about it because their party created it in the 1st place, but republican voters who oppose it know why we do.

[BroJoeK]

lacrew quoting Tucker: "Each is still a perfect state, still sovereign, still independent, and still capable, should the situation require, to resume the exercise of its functions as such in the most unlimited extent."

But Tucker was not a Founder -- he neither helped write nor voted for the US Constitution.

Tucker's fellow Virginian, James Madison, was a legitimate Founder, who both helped write and worked hard to ratify the new US Constitution in 1787-8.
So Madison's opinion on the subject of "disunion" matters, while Tucker's does not.

Madison, like all Founders believed that "disunion" was legitimate in two cases: 1) mutual consent or 2) federal abuse or usurpations of power.
They did not agree that secession "at pleasure" was acceptable.

[BroJoeK]

jmacusa: "Have a safe trip BroJoeK"

Thanks! So far, so good. Now play-time over, time to start back to work... :-)

[BroJoeK]

eyedigress: "The war was about trade and the Mississippi River."

You digress.

No Confederate state document on reasons for their secession mentioned that issue.

It was concocted much later as an effort to draw attention away from what secessionists said was their real reason: protecting their "peculiar institution" of slavery.

[BroJoeK]

Partisan Gunslinger: "When were the Democrats ever good?"

Great summary!

[central_va]

Southern Democrats voted Democrat because they could never vote for the party of Lincoln. Simple as that. This changed in the 1960’s.

[central_va]

The original Republicans were wild eyed agitators and secessionists Abolitionists.

Fixed

[BroJoeK]

Thanks, I’ve saved it for future reference.

[BroJoeK]

central_va: "Southern Democrats voted Democrat because they could never vote for the party of Lincoln.
Simple as that.
This changed in the 1960’s."

Agreed, and it's also fact that Democrats like New York Governor, then President Grover Cleveland (served twice during 1885 to 1895), were genuinely conservative.
No dispute about that.

But the "progressive era" infected both parties, and Democrats (Wilson, FDR) far more enthusiastically than Republicans like Harding and Coolidge.

Regardless, the Solid South solidly supported Democrats even into the 1950s and liberal Democrat Illinois Governor Adlai Stevenson's run for president against Dwight Eisenhower.

[jmacusa]

Boy, you play nice with others, don’t you?

[jmacusa]

Pick up what passes for a history book these days? The Founders are pretty much nonexistent.

[P-Marlowe]

I don’t cotton to people who want to ban symbols and flags or FReepers who jump on the politically correct bandwagon.

[jmacusa]

Political correctness is cultural Marxism and I'm no Marxist. The Confederacy and it's flag are a Democrat creation. Are you a Democrat?

[P-Marlowe]

I’m a rebel.

[jmacusa]

A Confederate?

[P-Marlowe]

A liberty loving American.

[jmacusa]

Fair enough. Me too.

[Partisan Gunslinger]

But the truth of this matter is that the Federal Government under both outgoing Democrat President Buchanan and incoming President Lincoln did do... precisely... exactly... nothing to stop Southern Fire Eaters from declaring their secession (beginning December 1860) and forming a new Confederacy (February 4, 1861). The Union continued to do... precisely... nothing to stop Confederates from dozens of provocations of war in seizing major Federal properties -- forts, ships, arsenals, mints. The Union only responded with military force after the Confederacy first launched war against Union forces in Fort Sumter (April 12, 1861) and then formally declared war on the United States, May 6, 1861. The first Confederate soldier killed in battle came at Big Bethel, June 10, 1861.

Well put. Funny how the Lost Causers always say Lincoln was a tyrant when all he did was respond to aggression. I guess that makes us tyrants against the Japanese in WW2. lol

[BroJoeK]

Here's my problem with this whole conversation over the Confederate Battle Flag, which I consider ridiculous -- the debate, not the flag!

Take a careful look at these photos below, what does every one have in common?

Powerful helicopters:

Long range cruise missile:

Bad-*ssed (for their time) tanks:

And even this tank?

US Ticonderoga class guided missile cruiser:

Answers:

1. The helicopters all have Indian names -- Apache, Black Hawk, Chinook, Tomahawk.
   In particular, Black Hawk was an Illinois area chief who conducted a long war against American troops, including briefly, a young Captain Abraham Lincoln.

2. Those bad-*ssed tanks (for their time) were named after Confederate Generals Lee and Stuart.

3. Everyone knows the M-1 Abrams tank is named after WWII US tanker, later General Creighton Abrams.
   But how many know who makes the big guns for that tank?
   That's right, the same company that made many of Col. Abrams' enemy Panther & Tiger tanks -- Rheinmetall of Düsseldorf, Germany.

4. Finally, a US Ticonderoga class guided missile cruiser (CG-62) named what?
   Right, USS Chancellorville, after RE Lee's greatest victory over Union forces.
   In this photo it fires a Tomahawk missile, and on board are two of the Navy's version of Black Hawk helicopters.

Does anyone get the picture?
We respect and honor our old enemies, especially those who showed the greatest qualities of courage, devotion and resourcefulness.
And that is the true symbolic meaning of the Confederate Battle Flag, the rest of it is just blathering nonsense.

Come on, people, who seriously has a problem with this?

[bert]

Damn yankees and their gullible associates

Purge the North east States and all will be ok

[BroJoeK]

Sorry — Tomahawk is a cruise missile, as shown below the helicopters, not a helicopter.

Proof read, proof read, then proof it again...