SHOULD WE RETIRE RETIREMENT?

boblonsberry.com ^ | 06/10/15 | Bob Lonsberry

[shortstop]

I’m not sure retirement is a good thing.

Not the way it’s done now.

The way it’s done now, it seems to me that we’re marginalizing our most skilled workers, fostering idlers and turning old age into a near useless stage of life.

It used to be that people didn’t retire. They worked til they died. And if they couldn’t work, hopefully their family or their church took care of them.

But everyone who was physically and mentally able to do some useful task did so.

The difficulty arose when people became what used to be called senile, or when they became so physically enfeebled that they couldn’t provide for themselves – and they didn’t have family, clan, tribe or church to look after them.

That’s when Social Security came about.

Laying aside its socialist assumptions, Social Security was envisioned as a pension system for those who were at the tail end of their lives. It was a pittance to help maintain those who couldn’t maintain themselves.

It was just assumed that anyone who could still work would still work. In that innocent day the notion that anyone would willfully choose to be idle, to live off the sweat of someone else’s brow, was shameful.

Retirement, as little as 50 years ago, was the time in life when old age and its limitations prohibited people from supporting themselves. It was almost always a fairly short time, because people that stricken by age typically don’t have much life left.

But that was then and this is now.

Now, people live longer and think different.

Now, retirement is seen as the “vacation” of life. People go into retirement long before they are physically or mentally incapacitated and, typically, with many years of potentially fruitful life still ahead of them.

This has come about by an advancing life expectancy, the former abundance of generous pensions, and a sense of entitlement to a comfortable retirement and the Social Security check that helps make it possible.

And our work ethic has changed. The connection between self-support and self-respect has – with unfortunate and tragic consequences for society – been broken in our country. Increasingly, a spirit of “I’m going to get what I can, it’s owed to me” has crept into our national values.

Rather, a spirit of personal greed and covetousness has replaced the value of self-reliance and hard work. This is not true for all, of course, but in varying degree it has become true for many, maybe even for most.

So we retire. Sometimes at 62. Or 63 or 65. Typically, Americans retire in their early 60s.

And, typically, Americans in their early 60s have another 20 years of life ahead of them.

And yet they have sidelined themselves. At a stage of life and their careers when their knowledge and experience are at their best, they lay work aside.

Which is a terrible waste.

Yes, people in their 20s will work for less. But people in their 60s have a wealth of ability built up over decades that is invaluable. They have learned lessons through success and failure that put them head and shoulders above younger workers.

But they retire. And then to fill their time many of them volunteer in helpful but generally menial tasks. They are helping hands, no doubt, but typically their skill sets lay fallow and wasted.

Many make retirement a time of ease and idleness. They do nothing. It seems sometimes that is harder than it sounds, as many of the most idle retirees seem to die fairly soon.

And it is the hardest working, interestingly, who seem to live longer.

I think that is because they have a purpose. They have a reason to get up in the morning. They know they are useful, and being useful is essential to a happy life.

I’m not begrudging someone who has worked a long and successful career a little ease at the end of life, but I am saying that “the end of life” isn’t anywhere as early as our custom of retirement seems to indicate. As a matter of personal fulfillment and happiness, and as a matter of social and economic policy, people who work are better than people who don’t work – and there’s no reason to think that changes when you turn 63.

As our health stays strong, we should consider staying in the workforce. And in meaningful jobs. Not that there’s anything wrong with being a Wal-Mart greeter, but the vast majority of elderly workers are capable of far more than smiling and handing out stickers.

Part of the problem is that we dismiss old people. We don’t take them or their abilities and experience seriously. Sometimes the most capable person in a company is the old guy they’re eager to push into retirement. Sometimes the arrogance of youth wins out over the ability of age and we suffer as a result.

So I think we should change our thinking.

Retirement shouldn’t be an automatic. There are no automatic milestones of age, and there should be no automatic milestones of the workplace.

People shouldn’t automatically assume they must retire, and society shouldn’t automatically assume that they must either. Much joy, prosperity and productivity can be found by staying in the workplace, instead of shuffling off to Florida, and more people should consider the option.

[Mastador1]

It depends on what sort of work you do.

If someone has been doing physically demanding work, such as construction labor, it gets more difficult to keep up with the physical demands of the job as people get older.

I couldn't agree with you more, though I'm prejudiced, body just plain broke, had major lumbar surgery in December and just followed that up with cervical fusion on four levels in May and I guarantee you I would rather be working, but being a Walmart greeter is unappealing.

[markman46]

i just turned 60 and plan on working till i am 70 i hope, love the company i am working at.. so we shall see.

[Kickass Conservative]

We have a segment of our Society who Retire in their 20’s.

They get Section 8 (almost free) Housing, EBT (free food), Medicaid (free Healthcare) and SSI (free Money). All this with no limit on how long they can collect all the benefits.

People like us Work for a Living. People like them Vote for a living. Benjamin Franklin had it figured out Centuries ago. The Republic will not survive such Idiocy.

[Gamecock]

Sure.

Disclaimer: This is not to take the place of financial advice of by a financial planner.

Let's look at a trip to Europe.

You can get an economy ticket from the east coast for about $1000. Business class generally for $4000 (Though there are good sales for both right now.

Airlines will hawk their credit cards telling you that 25K miles will get you a domestic economy ticket. True, if you plan in advance. That ticket is generally worth what? 300-400 dollars?

An economy ticket to Europe is 50K miles on AA, if you plan far enough in advance.

A business class ticket is 100K, again if you plan in advance.

Notice the growth in value:

Domestic economy: $300ish or 25K miles.
Europe economy: $1000 or 50K miles.
Europe business: $4000 or 100K miles.
For a point of reference, I got my mom a business class ticket to Germany this fall for 100K miles and $120 in fees/taxes.

Now, how do you get these miles?

(You will need to start about 2 years in advance and get the tickets 330 days in advance, they go fast.) Find an offer for an American Airlines credit card with a 50,000 mile sign up bonus. You need to spend $3000 in 3 months. Then get an AA business card and do the same. (You don't actually need a business.) You now have enough for the ticket. Have a spouse who wants to go? Have them do the same.

Some ways to get the spend:

Buy gas gift cards. I spend $400 a month on gas. Buy Shell or Exxon cards at Staples and in 3 months I have a $1200 spend.

Pay cell phone, Internet, electricity and other utilities. Good for another $1000-1500.

Buy big ticket items during this time.

There are other ways to get miles: When I signed up for DirecTV I got 25K miles. The airlines have online malls linked to a large number of stores. always look for deals. If you buy flowers for anyone they also have deals for that.

The same principles work with hotels as well.

Is all this a pain? Can be. But to me it is a hobby and well worth the work.

The difference is A 8-9 hour flight in this for $1000:

Or this for 100K miles and $120:

At this stage of my life I'll take the latter.

[1Old Pro]

At any rate it is no where near 80% you claim.

In NYS, most police & fire work 20 hour days for their last 3 years, many retire at 100% or more of their normal wages. Teachers, about half are way over paid, also get early retirement and great benefits to retire. Government workers for the state, about 150% overpaid and thus earn in retirement way more than their ability in the private sector

[kabar]

What age group would that be? I hope they are not including the eligible for social security crowd or the teenagers ( most of them are in school )

Did you look at the charts? I thought they were pretty self-explanatory. Check the second chart. The number of natives not working between the ages of 25 to 54 has increased from 18.1 million to 23.4 million.

We really have a serious structural employment problem that casts a giant cloud over our future. We are destroying the middle class and creating a permanent underclass. This does not bode well for our future as more and more people become dependent upon the welfare state. Workers are becoming disposable commodities mainly due to the fact that we have a massive surplus of labor. Yet we continue to import 1.1 million permanent immigrants a year along with 640,000 guest workers annually. Wages are stagnating or declining and the native born are being pushed out of the labor market. Over 25 million foreign born are in the workforce.

[ConstantSkeptic]

Retirement is the best thing my husband and I can do for the economy.

I had a great paying job when I retired. Some younger person then got that job. My husband has a great paying job. Some younger person will get that job next year when he retires. How frustrating it is to be a young person wanting to move forward in his career but have an older person sitting in that coveted position. It’s good for the younger generation, it’s good for companies.

Secondly, my husband and I have saved a long time. We won’t need to take social security until we’re 70. All this time we’ve been taking money out of the economy and buying index funds. That does squat for the economy! During our retirement our outgo will exceed our income, as it should if we spend down our savings like the average person does in retirement. That’s great for the travel industry, for the auto manufactures (new cars are in the near future for us), for the home remodelers (that’s in our future), etc. And no, we won’t need to depend on the government for anything because we’ve saved and invested responsibly. Our retirement will be wonderful and well-deserved.

[BenLurkin]

Yes, well, it's not that I want to die, per se. It's just that I'm not very interested in living much longer.

[1Old Pro]

buying index funds. That does squat for the economy!

Did the index funds buy the underlying securities? If so, you helped finance business growth

[HotHunt]

Like I said, to each his own. It's all in the mind of the beholder. Perception is everything.

We consider ourselves retired because we don't work for somebody else. We don't punch a clock. We don't have a boss. But we also don't have a salary. We live off of our SS checks. We're frugal and live comfortably. We have no debts but also don't have new cars and the latest "toys". We both veterans and go the the VA for our medical care. We're doing better than many of our friends our own age.

But retirement is not without it's benefits. Friday, we will drive to the big city, take in a movie and go out to eat. Stop by Tractor Supply for some feed and supplies and Lowe's for some things we need at the farm. Our cows will be bellowing for us when we get home, wanting to know where we've been all day.

It is very much retirement when compared to rocking on the front porch waiting to die.

[TexasTransplant]

I did all my “Retirement” stuff when I was young.

I stole the following from a fellow FReeper awhile ago ...
“If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there’d be a shortage of fishing poles”

I try to go fishing 2-3 times a week, sometimes I just watch other people fish and share fishing tips.

I will remain semi-retired as long as the beer holds out.
TT

[Political Junkie Too]

Expect more articles on “why you shouldn’t retire.”

I was thinking the same thing. Expect to be called wealth-hoarders, non-contributors (no more SS deductions from non-existent paychecks), unfair racist luxury enjoyers wasting money on cruises that could be put to better use on the poor...

All this after millenials accuse us of hoarding jobs by staying in them too long and preventing their advancement, and businesses look to lay us off every few years because we cost too much...

I think that working for 38 years is enough. I look forward to another 25 years of leisure, travel, hobbies, etc.

If they don't confiscate my 401(k) before I get to access it...

-PJ

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Again.

If you own the land, and you own the herd of cattle, sounds to me like you own a business and you are not retired at all.

I guess my definition of “retired” means not working at all, either for yourself or someone else.

[VRWCarea51]

My thoughts exactly with one exception. If my wife ever wants me to go on a Cruise with her, I will be in a Urn.

IMHO that is the biggest waste of time and money a person could ever embark on.

Now put me on a Mt. Top hunting Elk, A Swamp in Northern Saskatchewan hunting Bear or WhiteTail,
A boat in the Middle of Saginaw Bay or Lake Erie catching Walleye or Lake Michigan landing 20 lb. King Salmon I’d be all in.

That and I really want to spend some time right at rush hour driving the busy roads doing 45 mph looking at everything but the road. Hit the convienence stores to hold up the line picking 16 different scratch off Lottery tickets, demanding my senior discount and asking the clerk to explain the receipt because I can’t see too good.:)

[Raycpa]

Culture takes what God tells us is good and turns it into bad. Work existed before the fall in Genesis. Adam had three assignments. The first was physical and it was taking care of the garden. The second was mental and it was naming the animals. The third was spiritual and it was walking with God.

Retirement takes God’s ways and turns them upside down.

[SVTCobra03]

I retired at 63 and am busier and happier than when I was working.

[ConstantSkeptic]

Did the index funds buy the underlying securities? If so, you helped finance business growth

Except for the initial IPO, the money paid for stock goes to the current stockholder, not to the original company. If I sell my 3M shares and buy GE stock, that's all on the savings side. I sell to one investor and buy from a different one. It generates no demand for product, it does nothing for the economy.

[HotHunt]

By definition, a business has to make a profit or it is not a business. This from my days as a business major in university.

We have to sell some cattle to have any revenue. We're still breeding and growing our herd. Our expenses far exceed any revenue we anticipate in the foreseeable future. And a profit is not even on the horizon. Trust me, this operation won't turn a profit for years.

Maybe you think we're not retired. Try looking at this as our lifestyle choice and not as a business for profit in the conventional sense. A big, expensive hobby, if you will. Color outside the lines a little. Then you'll get the idea.

[Political Junkie Too]

Now put me on a Mt. Top hunting Elk, A Swamp in Northern Saskatchewan...

Then forget the cruise, get an RV. Flaunt your retirement excesses! After 35 years on the job, we earned it!

-PJ

[Myrddin]

Many of the best and brightest in my line of work are over 55. We have people in the office in their mid 70s. Lots of PhDs who love their work and have no younger charges willing and able to carry it forward. It doesn't help when the government drops the ball on contract funding and the successful hires have to hit the bricks to keep the bills paid.