Posted on 05/25/2015 10:05:12 AM PDT by Kaslin
I have no desire to pile on with more comments about Josh Duggar, who appears to be a very serious and committed Christian who has made no excuses for the sins of his youth and who deeply desires to make a positive impact for the Lord in the years ahead. I simply want to share some redemptive thoughts, supplementing some of the excellent statements made by others, including former governor Mike Huckabee and Southern Baptist leader Russell Moore.
1. Jesus really does change people. While critics of the Duggar family want to indict them (along with other, evangelical Christians, especially those with large families) for Josh’s actions, and while many seem ready to throw Josh under the bus, the fact is that while he did sin grievously, through repentance, faith and counseling, he became a new man. Jesus really does transform sinners.
How many of us did wicked things as teenagers? I was shooting heroin at the age of 15 and broke into some houses and even stole money from my own father before being radically converted at the age of 16. I was profane, filled with pride, anger, and lust, yet the Lord had mercy on me and totally turned my life around.
Some of us continued to live like this into our adult years, only to find mercy and new life then, meaning that the transformation was even more dramatic.
For me, the first lesson from this story is this: Whoever you, whatever you’ve done, there is hope in the Lord. As Mike Huckabee said, “‘inexcusable’ . . . doesn’t mean ‘unforgivable.’”
As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
2. There’s no excuse for sin, so own up to it. In today’s culture, almost no one is guilty of anything. It’s someone else’s fault, someone else’s responsibility, not our own. We’re all victims, and the reason we do bad things is because someone else wronged us. Isn’t that how we think today?
I’ve even heard athletes apologize for some really heinous actions by saying, “I’m not happy with the way things happened,” rather than saying, “What I did was wrong and I have no excuses. Please forgive me. I’m seeking to get to the root of my problems and address them.”
What a vast difference between the two attitudes.
As Proverbs states, “Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy” (Proverbs 28:13).
According to the accounts we’ve all heard, Josh confessed his sin to his parents as well as to the proper authorities, and as a family, they worked through the issues. Now, half a lifetime later (he’s 27 and is married with four children), when confronted with a police report about his past, he did not minimize his sin nor did he excuse it. He also resigned from the fine Christian organization for whom he worked, not wanting to bring any negative attention to their work.
When I see someone respond like this, I am filled with hope. In fact, over the years, I’ve seen that people who committed uglier sins but took full responsibility and repented did far better than those who committed less serious sins and tried to sweep them under the rug.
3. Even godly families have kids who mess up badly. Nancy and I only had two kids, and we sought to be godly parents and set godly examples. Yet our older daughter went through a real period of rebellion in her teen years.
As parents, we felt miserable, and I would wonder what I was doing wrong.
Of course, we dealt with her rebellion head on and prayed like crazy for her to really encounter the Lord, but while it was happening, it was terribly deflating spiritually. What kind of father am I? How can I be so ineffective?
Today, we all laugh about those years, and our daughter, who is now 37 and is a devoted wife and mother, is so grateful for the way she was raised. (She and Nancy are the best of friends and are in constant contact.)
The fact that the Duggars, who successfully raised 19 children in the Lord (who can imagine that?), had to deal with one of their kids committing serious sexual sin at 14 should actually encourage other parents rather than discourage them. And perhaps, they can teach us today how this tragic incident helped them come together as a family and draw closer to the Lord.
4. Josh can be an ambassador on behalf of the abused, even helping the abusers as well. While it can feel like your life is over when your past, largely private sins become public (how many of us would like for that to happen?), the fact is that Josh’s future can be bright in the Lord.
He can call on others who are sinning to come clean and get help, using his own example redemptively. And he can encourage those who have been abused to realize that they are not guilty and should not feel shame, also encouraging churches to embrace those who come for help rather than making them feel as if there is something wrong with them.
Why should those who have suffered abuse be stigmatized? They should be our priority for healing and restoration.
5. We need to be careful how we judge. There are many fans of the Duggars who are upset with what they feel is a witch hunt against a godly family, representing one more attempt to remove them from reality TV. (Let me say without qualification that there is life after reality TV, and if the Duggars never do another broadcast, their lives can still be overwhelmingly blessed.)
But would we have had this same attitude of mercy and forgiveness if this was the child of a gay couple? Would we have said, “This proves that gay parents are no good!”?
I certainly believe that kids deserve a mom and a dad and that, optimally, they will do best with a mom and dad, but I don’t indict all gay couples because of the failings of one of their kids
So, if you want to show mercy, be consistent. We can all fall into the trap of selective compassion.
6. There are consequences to our actions, but with God, our worst mistakes can become stepping stones to spiritual growth.
Most of us have done things we wish we could take back, and in some cases, the consequences of our bad choices and sinful actions last for decades. Yet with the Lord, no matter how great the stigma of our sin, if we will humble ourselves before Him, He can take those stumbling blocks and turn them into stepping stones, to the point that the worst things that ever happened to us become the best things that ever happened to us.
To the core of His being, God is a redeemer, and I’m personally praying and believing that for Josh Duggar and his entire family, God will turn this painful situation around for greater good.
Let’s watch and see.
“do you not get that the question ‘does that turn you on’ has a different meaning when a man kisses a woman than when a professor gives a lecture?”
Sure. But to be clear he said it BEFORE kissing her.
The husband said it to his wife when responding to her comment about how great of a golfer he was. It had nothing to do with the kiss or the supposed grinding. The comment was made in response to her saying what a great golfer he was.
If I were there I would not have thought twice about it.
Now if it were sexually explicit like it was first portrayed to me, that would be different... not because a husband should never say such things in public but in the context of conservative Christian role models going out with their daughter and future son-in-law.
I was expecting to see him grinding his wife from behind and asking if it turned her on. That would be different. But that is NOT what happened.
“I believe you’ve not only met Gothard and been ‘impressed’ by him; I believe you follow him. Sorry, the cult mindset is hard to miss.”
Are you a prophetess or just clairvoyant?
I am not part of his ministry, but met him as a kid and have always admired what I heard from him. I am not part of his ministry. But I have been to his seminars and read a lot of materials by him.
There are many things I have disagreed with him about over the years, but I have always had a deep respect for him.
But more than my disagreements, it was my realization long ago that I was unable to live up to the standards that he and his “followers” as you want to call them advocate. I admire those, like the Duggars, who do or at least attempt to.
So, if what has been said about him turns out to be true, I will be greatly disappointed, but I do not follow him. I would like to say I follow Christ, but I will have to admit to being a poor, shallow example of such.
Your fixation on Gothard is just as revealing. Definitely a lot of people on the left who hate him and the Duggars. I find it very suspicious when supposed conservatives seem to align with leftists. It makes me wonder if it is really common ground, if the conservatives are confused, or maybe fake. (Not suggesting this is true of you.)
If I ever find myself agreeing with something Obama said or did, I get worried and take time to think about it more carefully. I suggest you consider that in all your enthusiasm to attack the Duggars, Gothard or others on this forum who disagree with you.
Since the never married Gothard resigned after being confronted with the testimonies of 34 teen and 20 something young women he sexually harassed I’d be willing to go out on a limb and say that your respect for Bill Gothard is misplaced.
“Then you must be a virgin, because Pop Duggar was simulating how it’s done. He was grinding himself into her rear. “
Sorry. No that is not how it is done, and I do know. You must think a person can get pregnant by getting golf lessons.
Here is the unedited clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XGMm-f53wk
And I said in response to this already, he made that statement to his wife in response to her saying what a great golfer he was, and before he kissed her, and NOT while supposedly grinding on her, which never happened anyway.
Anyone who sees a married couple behave this way and thinks it is sick, has issues of their own. Apparently some people (especially leftists) see them through sexualized lenses like they do when they manipulate the video over at places like TMZ. The left seems to make everything about sex, unless it is about gender or race.
Yes, I understand what he’s doing. He’s ostensibly showing her the right stance, while being cute and grinding into her.
Which fits right into the context of the kiss and “did that turn you on?”
He’s doing the “see what we can do because we’re married” thing that he and his wife frequently do around their kids. There’s something wrong with them.
It was the other person on the post who’s met Gothard.
“Jim Bob dry humping his wife from behind on the putt-putt golf course”
Didn’t happen. I watched the actual video.
“He and Michelle are both guilty of mentally molesting the minds of their children by their constant habit of drawing their kids into their sex life in discussions.”
It is really sick for you to hurl such accusations. Maybe justice will be served by your personal life being examined with the same scrutiny you give theirs.
“Finally, to your demand to know what church I attend, the answer is none of your business. Got that?”
As opposed to try to sneakily get someone to reveal their stand on Gothard by hurling unsubstantiated accusations?
That’s called hypocrisy if you are unfamiliar with the term.
What I will consider is this:
Gothard had to step down due to allegations of abusing 34 young women. And he had to do the same at his earlier ministry. So you respect him all you want.
The Duggars are strange, creepy people who set themselves and their molester son up as moral arbiters so they could make a buck. They forced their daughters to live around the boy who had felt them up. And they preach modesty while acting like completely inappropriate morons around their children.
Fawn over them, worship them as much as you like. But I’ll have none of it, and I will criticize them and their fake piety to my heart’s desire.
Well, that's how the media is making it sound, as if an offender was running the place and as if all this kid did was help build a house.
But, looking into it further... The media keeps saying the place was "once run" by this guy who stepped down last year amid allegations of harassment. But, the guy they're talking about founded the umbrella organization under which the Little Rock center (and many others) operate. He's around 80 years old now.
So, the question is, was he there running the place when the Duggar son was there? Or has he been little more than a board member of the umbrella organization? I don't know. But I'm not jumping to conclusions. The news out there is not clear.
And even if this guy was running the place, what does that have to do with this family?
This program the Duggar son went through is located in Little Rock in an old VA hospital, and a police substation also is there at the building (per Washington Post article). It's supposed to be a "Bible-based rehabilitation program."
Now, you and I might not agree with the program and what it teaches. But, it does sound like a rehab program.
“34 teen and 20 something young women he sexually harassed I’d be willing to go out on a limb and say that your respect for Bill Gothard is misplaced”
Maybe. Time will tell. But for a man who has interacted with literally millions of people (not exaggerating) in his very large ministry, I would say 54 people hurling accusations on a blog does not constitute proof legally nor Biblically.
However, I will admit that some of what I read even from his own admission is VERY troubling and disappointing. So I will allow for the possibility that you and his other detractors could be right and will some day be telling people like me “I told you so”.
Perhaps the truth will come out in time. Meanwhile, I will evaluate what he has taught in the light of what the Bible says rather than the accusations or what happened in the Duggar home.
“Fawn over them, worship them as much as you like. “
This. This. This shows you for what you are.
You don’t just make exaggerations and unsubstantiated accusations. You lie.
There is nowhere, at no time, in any way, shape, or form, that you can construe one syllable I have said to advocate the worship of anyone other than God.
The validity of ALL that you say is less than questionable because you demonstrated openly your lack of integrity.
Well, that’s not what I see.
After he makes some shots, she says he’s really good at the game. Then he asks, “Does that turn you on?” and kisses her.
I don’t agree with that comment in front of young people, but these parents are a married couple.
I don’t even think he was really very close to his wife when he was showing her how to bend her knees.
For me to “sneakily try and get someone to reveal their stand on Gothard by accusations”, I would have to question you...and in a “sneaky” manner, whatever that might be.
I didn’t ask you a question about your beliefs; I made a statement of what I think, based on facts you gave and on your steadfast refusal to see what’s in front of your eyes.
Yeah, I guess it does...someone who has no patience for people who fawn over some family on TV.
“I would have to question you...and in a ‘sneaky’ manner, whatever that might be.”
What it means is that you obviously hurl unsubstantiated accusations in order to get someone to go on the defensive and reveal details. Yet you want everyone to respect your privacy.
So I could be like you and say you are member of a Mormon spinoff cult that denies the real Trinity. Of course that is unsubstantiated, but in order to refute that you have to say, “no I believe in the Trinity, I’m Baptist”. Bingo.
“I made a statement of what I think, based on facts you gave”
No, you formulated lie upon lie based on your vile imagination. You have called people pedophiles who have not been convicted of such. You have called me an idolater. You have called me a cult member. You have claimed the Duggar parents are guilty of incestuous acts and public indecency.
Why? Is it because you can’t get your hands on Josh Duggar to crucify him or castrate him? Is it because you can’t get justice for what someone did to you, so you have to lash out at everyone who does not buy into your deranged mis-perception of reality?
You have said some fairly sick stuff. Don’t get your feelings too hurt when it comes back to bite you.
That and false accuser. But yeah, sure, someone who lacks patience. That too.
There are certain issues that transcend political lines. Despising people who molest children is one of those issues. The fact that you are criticizing "supposed conservatives" for agreeing with liberals that pedophiles are bad is.....interesting, to say the least.
Hmmmm, I hadn't thought of it that way before. I think you have something there - I mean, really, who among us has not been accused of harassing a few dozen women here or there?
(Do I really need the /s?)
The truth about Bill Gothard has already come out. Confirmed by witnesses and legal documents. Not just someone writing on a blog.
Don’t measure yourself to Bill Gothard’s man made and extra-biblical standards. Even he couldn’t keep them.
http://www.recoveringgrace.org
It is I who believes that the Duggar parents sexualizing the environment of their young children makes them guilty of emotional incest, not Catherine.
There is by some a complete callous disregard for the victims. And that does not mean I am defending the perps, whoever, and however many.
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