Family wins back 1933 $20 Double Eagle gold coins worth $80 million seized by feds

AP via NY Daily News ^ | 04/18/2015

[Kid Shelleen]

A family was awarded the rights to 10 rare gold coins possibly worth $80 million or more on Friday after a U.S. appeals court overturned a jury verdict.

U.S. Department of the Treasury officials insist the $20 Double Eagles were stolen from the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia before the 1933 series was melted down when the country went off the gold standard. They argued that Joan Langbord and her sons cannot lawfully own the coins, which she said she found in a family bank deposit box in 2003.

Langbord's father, jeweler Israel Switt, had dealings with the Mint in the 1930s and was twice investigated over his coin holdings. A jury in 2012 sided with the governmen

[mware]

When my mom passed she had a Band-Aid tin full of Morgan Silver Dollars. Since I was given the house I made sure all my brothers and sisters got to pick one of the Morgan's to keep.

[pallis]

To quote Hillary, “What difference does it make...?” It’s good to see the government lose a round every once in awhile. How many trillions has the government stolen? Give this family their pitiful little fortune of ill gotten booty.

[Kid Shelleen]

Interesting side note:
One of the judges on The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit was Judge Marjorie O. Rendell, ex-wife of DNC Chairman Ed Rendell. I wonder if Hillary is going to get a big campaign donation from the Langbord family?

[abb]

Here are the opinions.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2006cv05315/219422/181

http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/124574p.pdf

I’ve followed the case somewhat, having read a couple of books on the Double Eagle saga.

Here’s a history of the only Eagle that has been deemed “legal.”

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/blog/gold-bullion/the-hunt-for-1933-double-eagle-gold-coins/

[Domangart]

In order to prove a loss, you have to have a reduction in inventory. All records show no loss.

[dead]

The burden of proof that the current owners have no legal right to the coins should be on the government. This is something that they are very reluctant to ever concede, mostly because it threatens their various property confiscation drug war rackets.

If they can't prove the coins are stolen, they should belong to the people who had them.

Of course, the government gonna do what the government gonna do. All money and property is their's, they just let us use things for a while.

[kiryandil]

It looks like these people had possession of $80 million of coins that didn't belong to them.

It looks like these people had possession of about 10 ounces troy of gold that didn't belong to them.

There is NO guarantee that if the ten 1933 double eagles had been in the custody of the government, that they wouldn't have been melted down for bullion.

If the gruberment was entirely fair, it would have offered the Langbord woman some significant amount of "consideration" for the maintenance of these pieces in a safe place, in pristine condition.

Instead, the gruberment tried to steal them back. It's kind of like the property tax on a home that you've completely paid for.

You pay the insurance, you pay for maintenance and upkeep, you pay for the utilities to keep the place warm/cool/mold free, and liveable, you own the place free and clear, and the gruberment is standing there waiting for you to fail to pay a couple hundred bucks of the King's Rent, so it can sell "its property" and get its 200 bucks - be damned to you.

[kiryandil]

Of course, the government gonna do what the government gonna do. All money and property is their's, they just let us use things for a while.

Yep - now they're making noises about creating "The King's Money":

Citi Economist Says It Might Be Time to Abolish Cash [Link Only]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3279962/posts

[CommerceComet]

If the gruberment was entirely fair, it would have offered the Langbord woman some significant amount of "consideration" for the maintenance of these pieces in a safe place, in pristine condition.

Why be reasonable when you can be heavy-handed? Seems to be standard fare lots of time with governments.

Isn't it a common law burden for those holding assets that don't belong to them to take reasonable steps to maintain them with the costs to be repaid by the rightful owners?

[musicman]

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[hoosierham]

Tell it to those who absolutely can prove the money in the confiscated bank account was legally earned but the feds took it anyway-as the Maryland dairy farmer interviewed on Fox recently.The tissue-thin justification by the feds was he made too many small deposits instead of fewer big ones! No allegation of criminal behavior,no avoidance of taxes.

Maybe when they take YOUR bank account you’ll wake up?

[Secret Agent Man]

Yes. Laws for thee, not for me.

[Yogafist]

As I said before, I am not worried about my property, I function within the law.

As for waking up. You do realize you are flying off the handle after hearing only one side of a story, right? And the side pushing these stories is the side that stands to gain from illegally obtained money/goods.

You make the assertion the feds had, “Tissue thin justification.” Who told you that? The person protesting the seizure? I doubt the feds have shown their hand, so you don’t know what they had, or why they did what they did. And even if the courts threw the case out (I don’t know anything about it), we all know there are no bad court decisions. No activist judges with an axe to grind.

Look where most of these stories come from, defense attorneys, organizations that defend criminals... To me, most of these stories appear to be from people who want to be able to break the law, and profit from it.

These stories do prompt concern, and we should be suspicious of government overreach, and misconduct, but the idea we are all at threat of having everything we own confiscated for no reason whatsoever is ridiculous.

[hoosierham]

You do realize your ability to prove you own the car ,boat,home,or bank account really has no bearing on asset forfeiture.They take your property based on the idea it MAY have been connected to some law violation.

Asset forfeiture and the War On (some) Drugs is a failure at stopping crime.Over-reaching government is a threat to all,not just the criminal.

Americans are cajoled every day to take the “purple pill”, the ED pill, the pill for anxiety,the pill for this,and the pill for that by hundreds of commercials and advertisements ;and we wonder why there is a drug problem?!

[Smokin' Joe]

If the coins were replaced with double eagles of an earlier mintage, they were exchanged. As for "theft", that would imply that nothing had been done to replace the value of those coins. That apparently was not the case.

If a cashier exchanges a $5 Federal Reserve Note for a $5 United States Note or Silver Certificate that came in in commerce, is that stealing? I am asking this because I have worked places where these notes have come in in trade--as well as the odd silver quarter, dime, or wheat backed cent. Most of those were picked up by attentive cashiers and exchanged for more modern forms of equal legal tender value. Would that be considered stealing?

[Smokin' Joe]

defense attorneys, organizations that defend criminals...

You ever stop to think that defense attorneys defend the innocent, too?

Just because your stuff was seized doesn't mean you have been or ever will be charged with anything. You still have to sue to get it back.

If you fit a profile (like making small cash deposits on a regular basis--which many small businesses do--the government can rip you off. If you make large cash deposits, the government can rip you off, with the logic that either way, you are a drug dealer. You don't have to be charged with anything, but you have to sue and prove a negative to get your money back--after your accounts have been seized, based on arbitrary profiling. If you haven't stashed enough cash somewhere to get an attorney or land one on commission, you are royally screwed.

What ever happened to "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law."?

Due process has morphed into someone passing a law to redefine it, and the presumption of innocence has been cast aside.

Don't you find it odd that business persons can be profiled but terrorists (esp. Muslims) can't?

[SunkenCiv]

Note: this topic is from 4/18/2015. Thanks Kid Shelleen.

A family was awarded the rights to 10 rare gold coins possibly worth $80 million or more on Friday after a U.S. appeals court overturned a jury verdict.

[SunkenCiv]

• The Saddle Ridge Treasure of U.S. Gold Coins
• According to Donald Kagin, Kagin's has an exclusive arrangement with Amazon.com to sell the coins through their collectibles store. This arrangement is the first major sale of coins made through Amazon. John and Mary have also chosen to use the funds to cover their personal debt and donate to several local charities. They have additionally chosen to retain some of the coins for family heirlooms and keepsakes.
  
  Following the initial discovery of the coins, there was widespread speculation that the hoard represented the discovery of the 1901 theft of $30,000 from the San Francisco Mint by employee Walter Dimmick. Kagin's and the U.S. Mint ruled out this theory, stating that the Saddle Ridge Hoard is unlikely to be part of the mint heist, due to the diversity in the face value and condition of the coins. On March 4, 2014, The U.S. Mint stated that " do not have any information linking the Saddle Ridge Hoard coins to any thefts at any United States Mint facility", and " done quite a bit of research, and we've got a crack team of lawyers, and trust me, if this was U.S. government property we'd be going after it."
  
  Other disregarded theories contend that the hoard is a hidden stash of gold buried by Jesse James, or loot taken by Black Bart, who was known for robbing stagecoaches. A theory has also been advanced that the hoard was part of a treasure supposedly hidden by the Knights of the Golden Circle, to be used to fund a second Civil War. The predominant theory attributes the cache to an unknown individual who chose to bury the coins rather than trust the banks to protect his wealth. While the couple who found the coins have remained anonymous and the location of the find is undisclosed, several individuals have attempted to claim the gold coins or a share of the profits, asserting that the money belonged to one of their relatives or associates. -- WikiPedia
• Keyword: saddleridgehoard