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Presbyterian Church (USA) Changes Its Constitution To Include Gay Marriage
WashingtonPost ^ | March 17, 2015 | Sarah Pulliam Bailey

Posted on 03/17/2015 10:41:34 PM PDT by Steelfish

Presbyterian Church (USA) Changes Its Constitution To Include Gay Marriage

By Sarah Pulliam Bailey March 17

The Presbyterian Church (USA), the largest body of Presbyterians in the country, approved a change in the wording of its constitution to allow gay and lesbian weddings within the church, a move that threatens to continue to split the mainline Protestant denomination.

The 171 regional presbyteries (local leadership bodies within the PCUSA) have been voting on whether to change the wording to call marriage a contract “between a woman and a man” to being “between two people, traditionally a man and a woman.” On Tuesday, the denomination reached its needed majority of “yes” votes from at least 86 presbyteries to take effect. The change will be included in the church’s “Book of Order,” part of its constitution, taking effect on June 21.

The church, which has more than 1.7 million members, voted last June to allow clergy to perform same-sex weddings. That vote gave clergy the choice of whether to preside over same-sex marriages in states where they are legal, an action which is now allowed in 36 state and the District of Columbia. Clergy will not be compelled to perform same-sex marriage.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; pcusa; presbyterian
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To: Elsie

So they leave out the part of him sticking his head in a hat to get the answers. Too freaking insane for modern audiences, even modern mormon audiences.


161 posted on 03/21/2015 1:53:30 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: Elsie
"Jude 1:3...."

God works in mysterious ways! Right now, my life is in a shambles, and I've asked my fellow FReepers for prayers, that I may carry the crosses I've been given. Your post reminded me of something that for years was a nightly part of my family's prayer life. Praise God!

St. Jude, the Patron of Hopeless Cases!

Novena To St. Jude

Most holy Apostle, St. Jude, faithful servant and friend of Jesus, the Church honors and invokes you universally, as the patron of difficult cases, of things almost despaired of, Pray for me, I am so helpless and alone. Intercede with God for me that He bring visible and speedy help where help is almost despaired of. Come to my assistance in this great need that I may receive the consolation and help of heaven in all my necessities, tribulations, and sufferings, particularly -

(make your request here)

- and that I may praise God with you and all the saints forever. I promise, O Blessed St. Jude, to be ever mindful of this great favor granted me by God and to always honor you as my special and powerful patron, and to gratefully encourage devotion to you. Amen

PRAYER

May the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus be adored, and loved in all the tabernacles until the end of time. Amen.

May the most Sacred Heart of Jesus be praised and glorified now and forever. Amen

St. Jude pray for us and hear our prayers. Amen.


Blessed be the Sacred Heart of Jesus
Blessed be the Immaculate Heart of Mary
Blessed be St. Jude Thaddeus, in all the world and for all Eternity.


FOR THOSE WHO ARE ILL

Dear Apostle and Martyr for Christ, you left us an Epistle in the New Testament. With good reason many invoke you when illness is at a desperate stage. We now recommend to your kindness
{name of patient}
who is in a critical condition. May the cure of this patient increase his/her faith and love for the Lord of Life, for the glory of our merciful God. Amen.

162 posted on 03/21/2015 4:53:27 PM PDT by Grateful2God (Because no word shall be impossible with God. And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord...)
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To: StormPrepper
>>It's fast approaching. I believe this is what John was talking about in Revelation when he said people would not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast.<<

It's also difficult to patronize stores or donate to charities that don't have some connection to agendas that go against one's beliefs. We have no control over our tax dollars. Wherever money is concerned it seems there is some part of the overall agenda being patronized.

I often wonder why God holds back: yet I believe that we are living in a time of pain and chastisement. I also think, as you do, that it's going to get worse before it gets better, and I pray God for the strength to endure.

163 posted on 03/21/2015 8:15:52 PM PDT by Grateful2God (Because no word shall be impossible with God. And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord...)
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To: Grateful2God
I promise, O Blessed St. Jude, to be ever mindful of this great favor granted me by God and to always honor you as my special and powerful patron, and to gratefully encourage devotion to you. Amen

You have no idea how SICK this sounds to a Protestant!

Is this one of those novenas that NEVER fail?

164 posted on 03/22/2015 3:40:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Gamecock
OK Hacksaw, how's this:

LOL!

165 posted on 03/22/2015 8:59:04 AM PDT by Hacksaw (I haven't taken the 30 silvers.)
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To: Elsie
"Is this one of those novenas that NEVER fail?"

When a person prays, whether directly to God, or through the intercession of saints, angels, the Holy Souls in Purgatory, or other people on earth, if their intention is ultimately in accordance with the Holy Will of God, God will hear and answer their prayer according to His Infinite Wisdom and Love.

And in my life, prayer such as this has been answered: sometimes in ways I can't explain, sometimes in a result other than what I have asked, but never without a deeper love of God and increased trust in His Holy Will.

166 posted on 03/22/2015 9:34:36 AM PDT by Grateful2God (Because no word shall be impossible with God. And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord...)
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To: Grateful2God
I often wonder why God holds back: yet I believe that we are living in a time of pain and chastisement.

God's pattern is give the people every opportunity to repent. If you remember Sodom, God waited until there was no one left that would be saved except the prophet's family. At the flood, it was down to eight people.

It will get unbelievably worse. God will use the elements to stir up people into remembering Him. Earth quakes in diverse places, plagues and famines.

Right now there are a lot of good people being born, growing up and excepting the gospel. There's still a lot of good out there. The evil is getting worse that's for sure. But we're not to where Sodom was just yet.

10 years or so...till when this new generation comes of age. They have been indoctrinated by the left. And the Muslim children are raised on jihad... I think we're getting a taste of where the world is going...but just wait until this next gen is old enough to act as adults...

I think when the point comes that the Lord Himself has to intervene in order to save our lives He will put an end to it all... Just my thoughts.
167 posted on 03/22/2015 7:09:40 PM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: terycarl
So what...the second Pope nor any other succeeding Pope had to have been as Apostle..I don't know how the early church chose the next Pope, but they did....now we have elections by the Cardinals of the church...

Peter was an Apostle. Which means the leader of the Church was an Apostle. Christ walked with and specifically taught the Apostles. When He was resurrected He specifically showed Himself to the Apostles. He didn't say He went and taught the Bishops.

Paul lays out the true organization of Christ's Church.

Eph 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


Apostles are the first on the list for the "work of the ministry". For edifying the Church. The Apostles were different. They were special witnesses of Christ. Getting instructions directly from Him and then relaying that info to the people.

This maintained the distance of the people from the physical presence of Christ. We're supposed to learn to live by faith by feeling and being guided by the Holy Ghost.

This is why Linus could NOT have been the head of the Church. Linus was not a special witness of Christ. God didn't grant that kind of authority to him.

Without Apostles you can't have the true Church of Christ.

We can keep going back and forth on this point, however, Rev 11 still stands. There's no one in the Catholic church that can fulfill this prophecy.
168 posted on 03/22/2015 9:58:41 PM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: Elsie
What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

Joseph called it "Reformed Egyptian". The Nephites and Lamanites were separated from the old world for a thousand years. Their language had become unique as it morphed over time. And their language died with them.

Much like the language used in the US, it morphed over time.

Demanding Caractors of reformed Egyptian to match up exactly to an old world language is intellectually dishonest.

However, I find the similarities, especially with the Chaldaic language to be fascinating. Considering that Joseph had a 3rd grade education, there's no way he could have made it up.

1rst row - 1, 2, 3 are almost completely Chaldaic. Minus Martin Harris' old English swirls with the quill. The "V" with the dot in Row 3 is Aramaic.

The Book of Mormon was written specifically for us in the last days under the direction of God Himself. Given by God in His wisdom to correct the false doctrines spread by man. And the message the Book of Mormon teaches is true. The primary message of course being that Jesus is the Christ.
169 posted on 03/23/2015 8:01:46 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: Elsie
The gruesome be headings of some 40 Ute corpses in 1850

umm so?

This wasn't a Church event it was the actions of angry evil men. Which Brigham Young tried to stop by the way.

You can keep bringing up Mountain Meadows until you're blue in the face all you want...it doesn't change a thing.

Should we go through the police records and list the IDs of ever Methodist that has ever committed a crime and point fingers at their church shouting "See! See!".


Here some more cherries you can pick...
170 posted on 03/23/2015 8:14:30 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: Steelfish
The point I was making is that we need a single infallible authority that Chirst chose to select His written Word. It is indisputable that the early Church fathers under the first Popes following Peter painstakingly gathered hundreds of various manuscripts, pored over them for nearly 300 years, and the Synod of Rome in AD 382, a full eleven centuries before the appearance of the Reformation, set forth God’s written word.

Except they were missing the most important thing...the authority and direction from God to do these things.

Notice that the Apostles, who were in direct communication from God, literally face to face, didn't choose one writing over another. God never gave that direction. Nor did Jesus when He was on the earth.

In fact, it was said: 2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Therefore, your church fathers were actually acting against the will of God by choosing one writing over another and discarding most of it.

The fact is, they had no authority to discard any scripture or any writings from the prophets. They should have kept it all.

The list of writings they handed down in 382AD cannot be the final authority in anything because it's incomplete.
171 posted on 03/23/2015 8:34:16 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: StormPrepper
The Book of Mormon was written specifically for us in the last days under the direction of God Himself.

One of Mormon's god's has an EGO problem...


Moses
Chapter 3

1 Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day I, God, ended my work, and all things which I had made; and I rested on the seventh day from all my work, and all things which I had made were finished, and I, God, saw that they were good;
3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.
4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.
8 And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there I put the man whom I had formed.
9 And out of the ground made I, the Lord God, to grow every tree, naturally, that is pleasant to the sight of man; and man could behold it. And it became also a living soul. For it was spiritual in the day that I created it; for it remaineth in the sphere in which I, God, created it, yea, even all things which I prepared for the use of man; and man saw that it was good for food. And I, the Lord God, planted the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and also the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And I, the Lord God, caused a river to go out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 And I, the Lord God, called the name of the first Pison, and it compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where I , the Lord God, created much gold;
12 And the gold of that land was good, and there was bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river was called Gihon; the same that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river was Hiddekel; that which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river was the Euphrates.
15 And I, the Lord God, took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden, to dress it, and to keep it.
16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten, that it was not good that the man should be alone; wherefore, I will make an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground I, the Lord God, formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and commanded that they should come unto Adam, to see what he would call them; and they were also living souls; for I, God, breathed into them the breath of life, and commanded that whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that should be the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but as for Adam, there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And I, the Lord God, caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam; and he slept, and I took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in the stead thereof;
22 And the rib which I, the Lord God, had taken from man, made I a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said: This I know now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

172 posted on 03/23/2015 10:33:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
The Book of Mormon was written specifically for us in the last days under the direction of God Himself.

Too bad tha ol' JS didn't follow what he 'translated'.



 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even pat attention to the BELOVED KJV bible... 
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

173 posted on 03/23/2015 10:35:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
You can keep bringing up Mountain Meadows until you're blue in the face all you want...it doesn't change a thing.

And you can do the same, then, with the famous Extermination Order.

How many Mormons were KILLED by the application of this 'order' compared to how many DIED on WALKING to Utah during the heat of the summer; urged onward by a 'prophet' how apparently didn't CARE how many failed to end up at their destination?


WHY did a lot of MORMONs stay behind in Missouri?

Were THEY not FEARFUL of the EO??

How many of THEM were killed by rampaging mobs after BY and the fearful ones fled the scene?

174 posted on 03/23/2015 10:39:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
This wasn't a Church event it was the actions of angry evil men.

Uh...

...where's your DOCUMENTATION to show this claim is factual?

175 posted on 03/23/2015 10:40:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
The fact is, they had no authority to discard any scripture or any writings from the prophets. They should have kept it all.

I'm just amazed that you'd try to go here!

176 posted on 03/23/2015 10:41:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
The list of writings they handed down in 382AD cannot be the final authority in anything because it's incomplete.

Says WHO?

177 posted on 03/23/2015 10:42:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper

Well, this Petrine authority was not plucked from air. Any basic scriptural research including the findings of the early Church Fathers on this matter are crystal clear.

Until the reformation, the canonical texts as assembled by the Church in the Synod of Rome AD 382 and its interpretations through seven Councils were uniformly adopted including by many mainline Protestant denominations.

Simply citing to fragmentary quotes of scripture is of little avail. Essentially, you and other Bible Christians are trying to say that the great theologians of the times from Augustine to Aquinas to Newman to Benedict whose works are extensively studied as part of the core curriculum of theological departments in all the major universities world, all got Petrine authority wrong including those learned scholars and theologians among Lutherans who converted to Catholics.! That my dear friend is a hard if not impossible sell except to those who wallow in the shallow end of the pool of theological inquiry.


178 posted on 03/23/2015 8:19:49 PM PDT by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish
Simply citing to fragmentary quotes of scripture is of little avail. Essentially, you and other Bible Christians are trying to say that the great theologians of the times from Augustine to Aquinas to Newman to Benedict whose works are extensively studied as part of the core curriculum of theological departments in all the major universities world, all got Petrine authority wrong including those learned scholars and theologians among Lutherans who converted to Catholics.! That my dear friend is a hard if not impossible sell except to those who wallow in the shallow end of the pool of theological inquiry.

You're treating this as an academic exercise. Your premise is that it must be right because revered theologians say it is.

If that were the case then Jesus couldn't have been the Christ because the religious authorities of His time said He wasn't.

The findings of the early Church Fathers mean nothing if they themselves were apostate. What good is their opinion about God if God rejects them?

Until the reformation, the canonical texts as assembled by the Church in the Synod of Rome AD 382 and its interpretations through seven Councils were uniformly adopted including by many mainline Protestant denominations.

You argue for the authenticity of their scriptural choices but then ignore the contents of those very scriptures.

My point, which is very strong, is that the councils you are citing as authority, they themselves had no authority from God to make the decisions they made.

The irrefutable evidence is that there was no direct communication from God on their decisions. They made their decisions as men.

Abraham didn't just leave Sodom on his own. He did so when told to do so after receiving direction from God.
Moses didn't lead the people out of Egypt on his own. God instructed him face to face.
From Jonah to the Apostles, they all acted on direct communication from God.

The councils didn't. They acted on their own. The Catholic church is no different today, it acts on it's own with out any direct communication from God.


179 posted on 03/24/2015 7:18:14 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: Elsie
This wasn't a Church event it was the actions of angry evil men.
Uh...
...where's your DOCUMENTATION to show this claim is factual?


US Common law
180 posted on 03/24/2015 7:22:18 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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