Posted on 03/09/2015 11:53:01 AM PDT by TangledUpInBlue
A series of joint naval drills between the United States and France recently didn't quite turn out the way the US, no doubt, expected. The practice scenario ended with the French nuclear submarine that was acting the part of an enemy ship "sinking" the American aircraft carrier and most of its escort.
The exercises took place over 10 days starting in mid-February off the coast of Florida. The French nuclear attack submarine (SNA) — named Saphir — joined US Carrier Strike Group 12, comprising the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt (nicknamed the "Big Stick"), several Ticonderoga cruisers or Arleigh Burke destroyers and a Los Angeles class nuclear attack submarine.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/news/20150306/1019130173.html#ixzz3TurqV9N4
(Excerpt) Read more at sputniknews.com ...
Anti-torpedo options might put that in question.
I don't want to see one ship sunk or one sailor perish. My fear is that the US Navy underestimates our enemies and is overconfident while relying on electronic warfare so heavily that if that area was compromised, there could be disastrous results.
Wouldn’t this be classified information? So where did this come from?
Then there is the concept of not giving away all of your secret plays during a preseason practice scrimmage. ;)
The story keeps changing, the first one was just the carrier.....LOL!
No Promotion Unless A Commitment To Diversity Is Demonstrated, Air Force Sec Says
in the exercise, they were rescued first.
in the exercise, they were rescued first.
Surrender Monkey?
Maybe you need to brush up on your history. Contrary to what many people believe (or are taught by the Internet), the French have had a storied military history to be envied by many.
Can be submerged in water for many years and still it's french bread based hull remains as hard as the day it was baked.
Depends. There is supposed to be “swim-out” torpedoes. Swim out reduces the “transient” that occurs when a torpedo is ejected using compressed air.
As long as USN runs unrealistic scenarios (i.e. assuming the enemy is an alien super-race with capabilities we can only dream of) like this one, it will continue to rule the waves. These are stretch scenarios dreamed up in order to test USN responses in the event they are totally outmatched. It forces people to be psychologically-prepped to engage in triage-type decisions when things go south, instead of running around like chickens with their heads cut off. This type of training is, in part, how the US flattened Iraq's conventional units in both Gulf Wars - the training was tougher* than the actual war.
* Obviously casualties in training are fake except in the case of accidents, but units are written off when they are tagged, just as they are when destroyed for real, except the theoretical enemy is endowed with far greater capabilities than actual potential adversaries have, based on current intel. This means that for the US military, conventional war games are harder to win than actual military engagements.
http://rt.com/usa/238257-french-submarine-us-carrier/
A major vulnerability that allowed French submarine to “sink” aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt and most of its escort during drills was apparently revealed by the French Navy and Defense Ministry in blogposts that were quickly wiped out.
Both the French Defense Ministry and the Navy released and then quickly deleted a news post entitled “Le SNA Saphir en entraînement avec l’US Navy au large de la Floride” (“The SNA Sapphire in training with the US Navy off the coast of Florida”) that praised the 34-year-old French nuclear submarine’s success in “sinking” the American aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt along with best part of its escort.
Don't talk too much about that, or Obama will buy one for his ISIS/Hamas friends.
Must be taken with a grain of salt. Publication looks like a modern Russian “Pravda.”
The Diesel-Electric Submarine Threat
To put it simply, if naval exercises in the last two decades involving foreign diesel-electric submarines had been actual combat, most if not all, U.S. aircraft carriers would be at the bottom of the ocean: as many as 10 U.S. aircraft carriers have been reported “sunk” in these exercises.
The analytically conservative Congressional Budget Office was alarmed enough to officially report that “some analysts argue that the Navy is not very good at locating diesel-electric submarines, especially in noisy, shallower waters near coastal areas. Exercises with allied navies that use diesel-electric submarines confirm that problem…[For example,] Israeli diesel-electric submarines, which until recently were relatively old, are said to always ‘sink’ some of the large and powerful warships of the U.S. Sixth Fleet in exercises. And most recently, an Australian Collins-class submarine penetrated a U.S. carrier battlegroup and was in a position to sink an aircraft carrier during exercises off Hawaii in May 2000.”
There have been many such exercise “sinkings” since then, including aircraft carriers Reagan and Lincoln.
Moreover, the problem stems not just from the latest, 21st-century diesel-electric submarine technology from the West, it occurs in the form of various earlier technology submarines built in Russia, operated by China, and/or available to various lesser navies, such as Peru’s, and throughout the world.
The latter navies include North Korea’s and Iran’s. The problem was dramatically demonstrated when a Chinese Song-class submarine surfaced—previously undetected—in the middle of a U.S. carrier battlegroup much too close for comfort to the USS Kittyhawk in 2006.
http://www.phibetaiota.net/2012/12/winslow-wheeler-the-u-s-navy-troubled-waters/
These reports are not new, unfortuantely.
It’s entirely believable that a French boat sank one of our carrier groups.
Carriers provide the first response in hot spots as they are deployed worldwide and the Air Force takes time to get there.
Air assets and Marines are first to act because they are first to arrive.
Regarding Carrier defense, there are dedicated surface ships with electronic gear, subs and air assets that provide cover and search for bad guys. Hard to believe a single sub took out what they claim to have taken out, and like another poster stated, who knew what the ROE was. . .and finally, an important piece of information. . .we have these exercises not so much to practice our own tactics and strategy, but to assess the adversaries tactics, strategy and capability. . .hence higher “losses” on our side than we would normally experience if done for real.
We learn nothing if we whack then early and often and expose our true capability to an adversary, a ‘friendly’ adversary or an adversary that is watching and observing (think Russia and China).
Exactly.
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