Posted on 12/15/2014 2:48:11 PM PST by Oldeconomybuyer
People who own all-electric cars where coal generates the power may think they are helping the environment. But a new study finds their vehicles actually make the air dirtier, worsening global warming.
Ethanol isn't so green, either.
"It's kind of hard to beat gasoline" for public and environmental health, said study co-author Julian Marshall, an engineering professor at the University of Minnesota. "A lot of the technologies that we think of as being clean ... are not better than gasoline."
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
I’m amazed this was printed in the MSM!
GOOOOOLLLLLY! Is right!
Yea, that’s a big one. You know most are just throwing those things in the trash can.
Sure, HP to HP. But a 60 mpg gasoline car easily beats the Tesla in operating costs and costs 1/3 or 1/2 what a Tesla costs. Plus the 60 mpg car doesn't cost us taxpayers anything, but rather contributes to the tax base in many ways (unlike the Tesla). So if you are looking for tax payer subsidized luxury, go with the Tesla, but if you interested in savings then get an efficient gas car.
Price is the most simple and honest indicator of total energy consumed/pollution created in something's production, marketing, operation, and disposal. That test works for electric cars as well as $2 organic apples at the grocery store.
I am sure you have heard of kevmo
They're not efficient at all. If time is money, I'll drive a TDI coast to coast, you drive an electric.
Who will arrive first and how much later will you get there?
“...electric cars are always more efficient and less polluting...”
-
farkamadard
Besides, the article excerpt at the top of this page paints a misleading picture of what is said in the article. What is cut out, in the very next line is: “The key is where the source of the electricity [of] all-electric cars.”
Reading further, you will see that this article only applies to the absolute highest coal producing states: West Virginia, Wyoming, Ohio, North Dakota, and Illinois. Furthermore, it only applies to those states if you ignore all well-to-tank considerations of gasoline.
At the end of the article it says: “But if the power supply comes from natural gas, the all-electric car produces half as many air pollution health problems as gas-powered cars do. And if the power comes from wind, water or wave energy, it produces about one-quarter of the air pollution deaths.” (You could probably throw nuclear in there as well.)
Coal produces a minority of 39%, and falling, of our electricity. That leaves the majority of our electricity coming from much cleaner sources.
In summary, the article headline was click-bait, and it seems that most people fell for it without reading the article.
Electric cars require more energy to run them....the electricity comes from plants most of which are not geothermal nor solar
Unless and until there is a major, major, major (did I emphasize that enough?)
breakthrough in battery technology (storage and/or recharging),
electric cars will be limited to the marketplace
of urban, short distance drivers.
In 2013, energy sources and percent share of total electricity generation were:
Coal 39%
Natural Gas 27%
Nuclear 19%
Hydropower 7%
Other Renewable 6%
Coal and petroleum make up 40%. That means 60% of electricity comes from sources that are less polluting that what is talked about in this article.
“Unless and until there is a major, major, major (did I emphasize that enough?)
breakthrough in battery technology (storage and/or recharging),
electric cars will be limited to the marketplace
of urban, short distance drivers.” -Repeal The 17th
The plug-in hybrid Chevy Volt allows you to drive 90% of your miles on electricity by covering your day-to-day stuff, while freeing you from range anxiety when you need to take a spontaneous trip to Alaska. And by the way, all that stuff about fires turned out to be baloney. There have been a grand total of zero Volt fires in the real world.
Oops, I just realized I misread your comment. In what way do you mean they require more energy? The per-mile cost of electricity is 60% less than the per-mile cost of gasoline. That would turn a $300 monthly gasoline bill into a $120 monthly electric bill.
My main goal is to get a solo driver HOV lane access sticker for SoCal traffic. Secondary is to save on $/mile.
Pure EVs, plug-in hybrids, hydrogen FCs, and CNG vehicles can all get the HOV access decal.
The Honda Civic CNG is my next test drive. There's an adequate number of CNG stations around here.
Overall best choice may be a used CNG Honda.
Does a “hybrid” count as an “electric car”?
...the terminology becomes quite baffling...
What ever happened to “regenerative braking”?
Is that still around?
Yea, unfortunately the terminology is not very straightforward. (I took a public speaking / presentation class once. For my five minute “final exam” presentation, I explained the differences to my classmates. So yea, I enjoy talking about this stuff.)
You can think of cars as existing on a spectrum with gasoline cars on one end and pure electric cars on the other. In the middle are hybrids which combine a gasoline powertrain with an electric powertrain. Hybrid can further be separated into regular hybrids and plug-in hybrids.
The Prius is a regular hybrid, but since you can't plug its battery into your wall socket, it can only be charged by its gasoline engine. The Chevy Volt, and the Ford Fusion Energi that Dagnabitt mentioned, are plug-in hybrids. You can plug them in every night and wake up the next morning with a full battery. The Volt's battery will give you 40 miles of range for the day and the Fusion Energi will give you 20. If you drive past the electric range in a plug-in hybrid it automatically switches to gasoline. However, for a regular hybrid, like a Prius, it switches back and forth between gasoline and electricity from the get-go depending on how fast you are driving.
Regenerative braking is standard in all the cars I just described, except of course for plain old gasoline cars.
What defines an electric car is contentious even among electric car enthusiasts like myself. Some say that if it uses gasoline at all then it is not a “true” electric car. I say that if you can do all your daily driving using electricity, like you can with the Volt, and only use gasoline when you go visit grandma, then it is an electric car for all intents and purposes. People who agree with me call the Volt an “EREV,” or Extended Range Electric Vehicle. People who disagree with me call it a “PHEV,” or Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle.
To-ma-to, To-mah-to.
Health problems? CO2 is only a health problem at 1-2% or higher. Or are you referring to something else?
The per mile cost is identical with a 60 mpg car with gas at $3.
Smog, not CO2. It was a quote from the article.
“The per mile cost is identical with a 60 mpg car with gas at $3.”
According to Kelly Blue Book it is 98 mpg equivalent for the Chevy Volt and 114 mpg equivalent for the Nissan Leaf.
Of course those numbers are dependent on gas prices and, admittedly, my 60% figure was calculated before the recent drop in gas prices. However, who really believes that the Saudis are gonna keep the price this low for very long?
The electric vehicle made the trip in four days, with nine stops and up to 10 hours spent recharging the batteries of the EV. The performance of the EV was certainly NOT awe inspiring nor a sterling recommendation for electric cars. The driver, Edward Milligan, said he had major concerns about where he could plug-in to recharge his batteries and the affect that cold weather had in reducing the range the EV got on a full battery recharge. Because the trip was accomplished in February 2011, the driver was very concerned that running the heater or defroster would deplete the batteries' charge and leave him stranded by the side of the road. This is progress? Duh.
He should have just driven a Volt. You plug it in at night and in the morning you have 40 miles of electric range every day. If you need to go farther, like to Edinburgh, it automatically switches to gasoline after 40 miles and will take you far on its 340 mile gas tank.
Using such a car would allow you to drive 90% of your miles on electricity and still never have to worry about range anxiety or stopping at charging stations.
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