However, the video here shows actions out of line with the NYPD's own rules and went overboard.
I'm also puzzled why FR members who constantly worry about the police state, militarization of cops, etc etc go out of their way to defend EVERY ACTION by any police officer.
Unfortunately race has become the central issue here. This was excessive force and should be criminally prosecuted regardless of whether the victim was black, white, brown or purple.
I agree with Krauthammer. Incomprehensible.
The actions did not go against NYPD policy.
The specific choke hold banned included the use of a hard wooden baton. There was no wooden baton here.
I myself stated that this choke hold was used here against NYPD policy. I was wrong.
Well, agree only to the extent that arresting him for selling cigs without paying the taxes was so enforceable that they had to take him down (stupid laws here). He was a huge fellow and resisted arrest so there was little they could do. This was an accident waiting to happen but I blame NY taxes for this silly arrest anyway. Nothing intentional happened but these things will continue to happen especially if the fellow is rather large and resisting arrest.
I can understand why some would side with Krauthammer but count me out on this one. He is wrong here...
1. The cop was not using lethal force. Who knew trying to apprehend a fatso would result in his death?
2. The perp was resisting arrest. Even the edited video showed him not obeying the office. What was the officer to do? Give the perp his business card and ask the perp to self-report back at the station at his own convenience?
3. The Jacksons and the Sharptons have now allies in the Krauthammers and the Savages.
Personally, I am only defending the actions, or lack thereof, of the grand jury.
23 people looked at the evidence.
12 are need to indict.
8 were black.
Lesser charges were apparently available.
No true bill.
Another tobacco related death!
The police didn’t tackle him in response to his selling cigarettes. They tackled him in response to his resisting arrest. That’s two very different things.
It is such a shame people are jumping to conclusions, (judging) like Krauthammer and many others in the media; in not knowing what the evidence was that the jurors heard. The officer didn’t do this out of rage nor intent to take the man’s life; it was surely an accident, not a racial motive. I don’t need an uppity media, like Charles or some angry person to tell me what to think when I have not even read the facts to this case. Yes, it was a terrible tragedy but they were trying to get him to the ground for an arrest / not intending to cause his death, big difference. They did not pick the guy from random. Calls came in with complaints that the store owners wanted him away from their buildings. Yes, I think the law in NYC about selling illegals cigarettes is insane.
The cop didn’t “go overboard.” This was a huge guy who freaked out at getting a citation (I thought it was his second, but it was his eighth) because the (black) neighbors had complained about all the illegal activity at that particular location and the police were doing a sweep.
You can’t do a medical eval on somebody before you arrest him, and a person without his health problems (heart problems, asthma) would have been with us now, for better or for worse. All they did was restrain him and then as soon as someone realized there was a problem, the ambulance was there in 4 minutes.
It's a little strange to hear petty demagoguery like that from Krauthammer. Not unprecedented but strange. One could also say "He was selling loose cigarettes, which in and of itself is almost absurd to resist arrest over."
I didn’t like the look of that arrest at all. It sort of reminded me of the Lilliputians, ganging up and strapping down Gulliver on that imaginary island. There was something cruel about the approach they took, and over such small stakes. I agree with C.K.
I agree with Krauthammer.
In the video, Garner said “I can’t breathe” eight times, but the police still kept using force and pressure on him. Some kind of charge should have been made.
The problem in this incident isn’t centered on race or the hold used. The problem is that when the obviously large man was taken down and held he told the LEOs he was having difficulty breathing.
He should have been cuffed and emergency medical services called but instead he was left in difficulty.
Negligent yes but >probably< short of manslaughter and certainly not murder.
The guy did not attack an officer.
He was alive, the cops got involved, now he’s dead. He did nothing to warrant being deprived of his life.
I agree with the Ferguson grand jury, but the NY decision is outrageous. They should be rioting about this one, not Ferguson.
In both cases however, it’s RAT on RAT violence.
I agree with you. This is the kind of case the blacks, and whites, should be pissed off about. Ferguson was not the right symbol.
And everyone should be pissed about the Cleveland cop who left another police force because his superior said he was unstable and “dismal” in the use of firearms. He pulls up, shoots the kid and doesn’t even give the seasoned officer with him the chance to say “Hands up or I’ll shoot!”
Those officers’ lives were not in danger due to the actions of Garner. The choke hold appears to be excessive force to me, whether policy permitted or not. He protested numerous times that he could not breathe prior to losing consciousness for the last time. Resisting arrest is not a capital offense, last I checked. The offense for which he was being arrested was or should have been a misdemeanor. The actions of police were completely out of proportion to the situation at hand and this man died because of it. That there will be no legal consequence is astonishing, I agree.
“The guy was unarmed, and the crime was petty as they come. He was selling loose cigarettes, which in and of itself is almost absurd that somebody has to die over that.”
...
The initial crime was petty. However, Garner stated he was going to resist arrest, then he slapped away the hand of the officer in front of him, which is probably assault as well as resisting arrest. Police are authorized by law to use force in such circumstances. It was absurd that he died for selling cigarettes, however he was in poor health and he decided to commit crimes beyond his initial petty crime.
Thinking means differentiation, distinction, and discrimination.
Michael Brown assaulted and was returning to kill a cop. He got shot dead properly. GOOD SHOOT.
The poor guy in new York was selling loose cigarettes and was threatening nobody, and was killed for it for No Reason.
Think. Discern.
I saw the video a few times on TV today and I must agree that its looks terrible for the NYC cops, the choke hold ,the gang up and the deceased crying over and over ‘I cant breath’
On the video it looks like they just murdered him.
I agree its completely different than with Brown.,