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Krauthammer: Decision not to indict NYPD officer 'totally incomprehensible'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/03/krauthammer-decision-not-to-indict-nypd-officer-totally-incomprehensible/ ^

Posted on 12/03/2014 8:58:20 PM PST by TigerClaws

Charles Krauthammer said Wednesday on "Special Report with Bret Baier" that a grand jury's decision not to indict a New York City police officer in the death of Eric Garner, an unarmed black man who died in July after the officer placed him in a chokehold, is "totally incomprehensible."

"It looks like they at least might have indicted him on something like involuntary manslaughter at the very least," Krauthammer, a syndicated columnist and Fox News contributor, said. "The guy was unarmed, and the crime was petty as they come. He was selling loose cigarettes, which in and of itself is almost absurd that somebody has to die over that."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: ericgarner; excessiveforce; manslaughter; pantaleo
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To: FreeReign

How would you classify that hold around the neck that isn’t choking him?


41 posted on 12/03/2014 9:35:04 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Well I would say this about that choke looking at the picture.

Even thought the officers arm is in fact under the mans chin, his other arm is not behind the head pushing the head forward and this causing a windpipe choke against the arm under the chin.

That would be the sleeper hold or rear naked choke. That choke can deny a person air, and if held long enough is basically strangulation.

I do not see that here at all.

Also, it is not a choke that is constricting the arteries on either side of the neck.

Neither the man nor the officer is in a proper position for the officer to have the leverage to do that sort of choke which DOES NOT deprive the victim of oxygen to the lungs, but rather causes the victim to pass out due to lack of blood to the brain.

It looks to me like all that is going on here is that the officer is securing the man’s head, which I must say is large.


42 posted on 12/03/2014 9:35:32 PM PST by chris37 (heartless)
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To: DoughtyOne

Wow! Letting him sell unregulated cigarettes, what a crime! Think back several years ago when trying to tax the sell of cigarettes was NOT a crime but was considered commerce. Since when did we become such a regulated country anyway! That is the problem, not the police but what they are now forced to police. It’s called more and more government control of our lives!

What’s next?


43 posted on 12/03/2014 9:35:54 PM PST by Deagle
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To: oldbrowser

The problem with your “send in some big guys” solution is that it’s just so sexist, doncha know.
Police departments can’t just hire men because they’re bigger, stronger, and physically capable of doing the job: they have to hire women too.


44 posted on 12/03/2014 9:36:11 PM PST by Redbob (W.W.J.B.D.: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: livius; Yardstick
Totally agree, and well said.

I normally love Charles Krauthammer, but every once in a while I think he gets it wrong. This is one of those times.

45 posted on 12/03/2014 9:36:13 PM PST by 88keys (fought the good fight: deposed Harry Reid in 2014!! YAY!)
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To: TigerClaws

Those officers’ lives were not in danger due to the actions of Garner. The choke hold appears to be excessive force to me, whether policy permitted or not. He protested numerous times that he could not breathe prior to losing consciousness for the last time. Resisting arrest is not a capital offense, last I checked. The offense for which he was being arrested was or should have been a misdemeanor. The actions of police were completely out of proportion to the situation at hand and this man died because of it. That there will be no legal consequence is astonishing, I agree.


46 posted on 12/03/2014 9:36:41 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Deagle

Yeah, but this guy had been cited for selling cigarettes multiple times before...this was the eighth time I think I’ve read. So it was probably past time for citations.


47 posted on 12/03/2014 9:37:05 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: Jack Hydrazine

LAPD and NYPD (probably other forces as well) used to use a baton to cut off blood flow to the brain to bring perps under control. You get a guy high on PCP or some other substance, there’s a good chance they are not only going to hurt you, but they can also get hurt in the process. This guy may in fact be a good example of that.

I don’t like the baton method. I don’t care for this either, but this guy wasn’t going to comply in any way.

All he had to do was produce I.D. and take his citation. Instead he refused to cooperate at any stage in this process.

He made his choice. I’m not happy with the one he made, but it was his choice.


48 posted on 12/03/2014 9:37:29 PM PST by DoughtyOne (GOP. GOPe. GOPeGads! GOPeWWWWWWWWWWWWW...)
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To: ansel12

If a dozen cops can’t handle a simple daytime arrest of an obese person without doing something wrong and killing him, then something is wrong.

You obviously have never tried to make an arrest on a subject under the influence of certain drugs or combination of drugs. I have and had my ass kicked in the process. I have also had to combat a person under arrest and handcuffed as the person was trying to ram his head through a brick wall. You do what you have too do to survive.....


49 posted on 12/03/2014 9:37:37 PM PST by 48th SPS (Not Republican. Not a Democrat. I am an American)
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To: Yardstick

Yeah, horrible crime! Can’t understand why they allow these scumbags to be on the streets! /s


50 posted on 12/03/2014 9:38:48 PM PST by Deagle
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To: grundle

Bingo! After the second “I can’t breath” the cop should have loosened the hold. If they guy can’t breath he’s not going to be much of a problem. I’ve had a heart attack and believe me, there ain’t no fight in you.

But, remember, many folks believe the cops can do no wrong. And many civilians help the cops keep that thin blue line in place.


51 posted on 12/03/2014 9:39:16 PM PST by VerySadAmerican
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To: DoughtyOne

Yes it is.


52 posted on 12/03/2014 9:39:30 PM PST by laplata ( Liberals/Progressives have diseased minds.)
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To: Yardstick
This is why cite and release laws are good for petty offenses like this.
There was no reason for there to be a deadly force situation here.
Resisting arrest is not a capital punishment offense.
Cops need to learn how to be more judicious when confronting people for petty offenses.
There's just no reason to have a society where cops go up demanding full obedience and then dealing out death when orders aren't followed.
I think Wilson was doing his job and Brown gave him no choice but to use deadly force.
But here things could have been handled differently.
There does seem to be a significant disconnect around here about concern over the increasing police state and the idea that cops are always right in using deadly force.
Each case deserves its own examination.
Most people don't have a clue about police misconduct or excessive force until they are a victim of it.
As a prosecutor I saw countless instances of it. I saw very good cops and so,e really nasty ones.
They are, as a whole, generally a microcosm of the community they work in.
Since I never know which kind of cop I may come across I have to be of the mindset that he won't be a good one during an encounter. That's why I wouldn't consent to a search.
Similarly, if I were a cop I wouldn't assume that a person I encountered on the street is a good law abiding citizen. That doesn't mean I would treat them like a criminal or trash, just with caution.
Strangers are strangers, badge or not.
Lastly, I've seen a crap load of illegal arrests. Sometimes people are genuinely upset for being railroaded during an arrest.
I still advise them to shut up and comply.
Because at the end of the day we can win in court most of the time, but getting a non judicial road side death penalty imposed can't even be appealed.
53 posted on 12/03/2014 9:39:51 PM PST by Clump ( the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: DoughtyOne

So what you are saying is that it is impossible for a police officer to use only his arms to cut off the blood flow to a perp’s brain?


54 posted on 12/03/2014 9:40:02 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: TigerClaws

“The guy was unarmed, and the crime was petty as they come. He was selling loose cigarettes, which in and of itself is almost absurd that somebody has to die over that.”

...

The initial crime was petty. However, Garner stated he was going to resist arrest, then he slapped away the hand of the officer in front of him, which is probably assault as well as resisting arrest. Police are authorized by law to use force in such circumstances. It was absurd that he died for selling cigarettes, however he was in poor health and he decided to commit crimes beyond his initial petty crime.


55 posted on 12/03/2014 9:41:19 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: DoughtyOne

The policeman also did not have his other arm behind the neck of the suspect. A chokehold is used to cut off the blood flow to the brain, so the second arm is needed to apply pressure at the back of the neck. The hold the policeman used had an arm around the front of his neck and the other arm was not applied. His hands were interlocked.


56 posted on 12/03/2014 9:41:39 PM PST by joshua c (Please dont feed the liberals)
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To: Frank_2001

I agree — the situation is totally stupid and unnecessary, and basically the result of liberalism. Nanny state laws plus the destruction of the black family/culture are root causes here. But of course the libs and their media pals are going to shoehorn this thing into their racial grievance narrative.


57 posted on 12/03/2014 9:43:13 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: Jack Hydrazine
How would you classify that hold around the neck that isn’t choking him?

I believe the rules refer to "headlocks" being allowed. Some call them submission holds.

Choke holds which are forbidden cause asphyxiation.

58 posted on 12/03/2014 9:44:19 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: Jack Hydrazine

So this choked hold was not illegal?

...

The officer does have his arm around the neck, but the coroner found no damage to the trachea or to the bones in the neck that would indicate a choke.

Furthermore, the ban on choke holds is a police department policy, not a New York statute.


59 posted on 12/03/2014 9:44:31 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

It’s not a choke.

It’s a simple headlock.

He isn’t constricting the man’s windpipe with either arm.


60 posted on 12/03/2014 9:45:52 PM PST by chris37 (heartless)
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