Posted on 11/18/2014 5:04:20 AM PST by Prophet2520
Although our array was designed to generate 30% of our electricity requirements, we are pleased to report that in reality it generates more than that and on very sunny days, we become a net exporter of clean green electricity.
(Excerpt) Read more at select-renewables.co.uk ...
Solar will not work in an industrial modern system. There is only so much energy from the sun. If you have an off grid rural house you can get by.
It’s worse than that: many states mandate that the utility pay the retail price for that electricity to boot!
It’d be a bad enough deal if they mandated the utility (it’s other customers actually) pay the wholesale price.
“What’s a generously sized solar system put out?”
http://www.we-energies.com/residential/energyeff/active_installdata.htm
If you look at the link I provided in #24 (I think) and again here you can look at the real time data from existing systems.
“Mybe 50 amps at 110v on a sunny day if you’re lucky after it’s inverted, then subtract any usage.”
You need to understand many grid tied systems do not invert to 110v but to 240v.
“then subtract any usage. So what’s left now “
You are right that if only one person on a grid stuffs back in a little solar power it is a drop in the bucket. But if thousands of people during peak demand sunny summer days, make no demands on the gird, but instead feed it with 100KW of power, yes it does make a difference. Don’t forget the difference the lack of demand makes.
“I’m arguing against forcing utilities to pay for power they can’t use so that an uneconomical solar installation can claim to be “green”, “independent”, or a “success story”.”
They can and do use it. The utilities have taken enormous sums of tax dollars, and with that comes responsibility to answer to gov’t and tax payers.
“So now you decide to push 1kw backwards into the system. Does the power company get 5kw back? No, more likely they get 0.2kw because of the same 80% loss in the other direction.”
No! That power is ALREADY distributed. It may not even have to go through a single other transformer before your neighbor consumes it.
Electric resistive heating -> NO!
“You ignore the STATE and federal taxes coal pays which solar doesn’t.”
Solar does pay taxes when it is a power production business making profits like coal.
“Historically, the choice was between ‘no electricity’ and subsidies.”
I don’t agree with that socialist viewpoint.
“But of course solar PV use depends greatly upon the subsidized power grid so that subsidy must be counted as a subsidy for PV too...”
Only the grid tied ones. there are boatloads of off-grid systems, and it is too bad there are not more.
I live in a rural area too. Alternate heaters and plenty of batteries are just par for the course. Trees hate powerlines, especially when it’s cold.
Best choice for the barn is probably to purchase a gas generator. If a lot of work (or ‘play’)is to be done build on a garage/workroom to the house. I don’t think it’d be worth it to do solar just for lights- but people do. Most people arrange barn chores for daylight hours and use flashlights and lanterns on the few times they have to work in darkness.
Evil? Let’s not get dramatic.
Sorry if you didn’t like the responses to your article, but no one is guaranteed a roses-and-champagne reception. It’s best to develop a thick skin and deal with the negative, rather than whining about it.
It’s too bad that some Freepers don’t live up your ideals. When I see someone whose posting history is filled with criticisms of this site and the people who post here, I can’t help but wonder why said person is bothering to waste time here.
Sure, it can be a tough forum. But it seems to me that well-intentioned NEW posters shouldn’t start throwing attitude right out of the gate. Do you agree?
“basically nothing with a high amp starting load.”
This is not true for 99% of solar installations.
System Types:
1. Grid tied. make no difference
2. Off grid with battery storage. Makes no difference unless you have ridiculously undersized your inverter.
3. Off grid with no energy storage. This is a rare cat indeed. I don’t remember every reading about a whole house off-grid system which did not use storage. But if they did then you are mostly right. the system would have to be sized to maximum draw. If it isn’t sunny at the moment, then no power. But as I said nobody does those systems.
“Lack of demand” and “already distributed” is relative to the proximity between you shoving power into the local grid and the closest user who can take advantage of it simultaneously.
You can pick any point on the grid from the power station to the fusebox. There are losses due to transmission and there are losses due to transforming. The closer the two points are, the lower the losses, but they exist.
Unless we’re talking a high density area, even just going to the next house is going to require transforming up to line voltage and back down. That’s the best case, and it assumes that the neighbor actually needs the power at the time. The farther away that power has to go before someone uses it when it’s being produced determines how much would otherwise be used and how much of the total distance is already transmitted.
I can’t even get power 1000’ across my property without a transformer. It’s 1/2 a mile to my closest neighbor and another mile to the neighbor after that.
If thousands of people in area start shoving power back in, then none of them need it when it’s being produced by definition, and it has to go even further to where it can be used. More people on solar actually makes the problem worse.
LOL!
Last try.
Coal: Coal taxes + “business” taxes - subsidies= net
Solar: “Business taxes” - subsidies= net
There’s an obvious difference.
My wife loves the trees. Sometimes I think the best thing about them is you can burn ‘em. ;)
We have a little outhouse and I’ve played around with solar LED systems just to get my feet wet. 1st one (Harbor Freight) was a bust, but the second one has been very useful.
I’d like something larger for the barn. With LEDs, the power needs are minimal, but it’s a quiet area and I hate to have to lug the generator around and run it just so I can operate a few power tools. Having a few batteries out there that were always topped off by the sun would make life easier and for not all that much money.
Of course, some windows or clear panels in the roof would probably help too...
if you are a do0it-yourselfer see this source for affordable panels
https://sunelec.com/
“It’s best to develop a thick skin and deal with the negative, rather than whining about it.”
No whining, only addressing your accusation. Never would have been mentioned otherwise.
“But it seems to me that well-intentioned NEW posters shouldn’t start throwing attitude right out of the gate. Do you agree?”
The attitude in this case is labeling ignorant as ignorant. I don’t see that as attitude. Statements like “smug, holier-than-thou lifestyle” which was commented, I see as attitude. I try to avoid that sort of thing completely. I do tends towards a sharp tongue, and constantly work to suppress it. :-) So I don’t think any poster new or old should be insulting and slanderous, but I don’t see calling a spade a spade a problem.
“Unless we’re talking a high density area... It’s 1/2 a mile to my closest neighbor and another mile to the neighbor after that.”
That is quite rural. Most of America’s population doesn’t not fall into a category even close to that. The 220V fed back through the meter would be used instantly be the next house. I wonder who paid for the power lines to come to all those houses a half a mile apart? It sounds like it would be thousands of dollars per house.
” it assumes that the neighbor actually needs the power at the time”
How many houses do you know of that have a meter that stops turning, EVER?
“Of course, some windows or clear panels in the roof would probably help too...”
Just realize that in almost all cases roof windows are bad compared to side windows. Roof windows increase indoor temperature in the summer when it is least desired, and increase heat loss in the winter when heat is most needed.
“What is the added cost and environmental impact of maintaining Operating Reserve?”
Good question. I don’t know. I haven’t studied much into this area, because it is all about distributed power, which I am not a fan of. In communities where solar, wind, hydro and geothermal are not enough, I think cogeneration is the answer. Cogeneration is FAR more efficient.
“Solar will not work in an industrial modern system. There is only so much energy from the sun. If you have an off grid rural house you can get by.”
see here
http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/solarenergy.aspx
excerpt: “Every hour, the sun radiates more energy onto the earth than the entire human population uses in one whole year.”
That said, solar should just be a significant part of the energy mix.
Again you are ignoring things, making assumption and over simplifying. I’ll use the data YOU provided on total 2010 federal subsidies even though it is only a small part of the whole picture.
Coal total 1358 million
Electricity transmission (i.e. grid for coal) 971 million
Total = 2329 million
Solar = 1134 million = less than half
The revenue the Federal government gets from things the industry takes from federal land is not tax at all, it is only paying for what was take. But even if you use those figures as well it still doesn’t add up, even when you ignore all other factors which you have been.
I have no interest in beating this dead horse further. If you want to prove your case show me all federal and state money spent in support of the power grid and the fuels it uses since its inception, don’t forget a portion of things like rail road subsidies which the coal depends on. Then compare that to total solar expenditure since inception. I’ll even accept leaving out the scientific advances that solar research has led to for other areas, vs. coal’s simplistic technology.
Talking to yourself is a sign of impending mental collapse.
And that was a Jimmy Clyde thing.
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