This was a 9-0 decision so the conservative justices joined in.......
Can someone somehow explain the legal reasoning behind this. How this critter is not guilty of stealing someones SS number? Thanks!
I just cannot see it!
The argument was that the illegal didn’t know the information belonged to another person. Forget the fact that they conspired to acquire unlawful documentation, you mean to tell me that they were so dumb they didn’t think it was illegitimate?
Last I checked, ignorance of the law is not a valid legal precept.
America’s waning days are growing ever so much more troubling.
So now ‘Ignorance’ IS a viable defense.??
The only way I could see it is if the defendant was given it, likely by some crony Obama lover DHS worker. They probably don’t speak very much English and were told that the papers were his, and he was a citizen now!
With all the rumors in South American countries spread to flood America with illegal immigrants I honestly would not be surprised if Obama himself initiated this hypothetical transaction.
What conservative justices?
Can someone somehow explain the legal reasoning behind this. How this critter is not guilty of stealing someones SS number? Thanks!
I just cannot see it!
Imagine you go to a foreign country and want to work. So some local gives you an “ID” that he says will allow you to get a job. You have no idea that it is stolen and the laws are confusing, but a guy gave you some “bogus” papers to allow you to work.
Except it turns out they are not bogus, but stolen.
You may be guilty of working via papers you knew were not legitimate, but that is different than working with papers that are stolen.
The cool thing about the law is that it is quite black and white. If the court can not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the guy KNEW the papers that someone else gave him were stolen, he is not guilty.
It is literally that simple and why this was a unanimous decision.
Apparently, the statute as written requires knowledge that the number belongs to another person (i.e., is not made up).
The Supreme Court, in this case, followed the law.
IOW, he viewed his action as akin to taking a new name, one that doesn't belong to anybody else, so he doesn't think he is stepping on somebody elses toes (beyond those he is deceiving with false ID).
The facts may speak otherwise to this. If he knew there was some sort of history associated with this "new" ID, then that history has to belong to somebody else. SCOTUS is adept at ignoring facts, and at ignoring law.
“No ‘mens rea’” - lawyer speek for “no intent to commit a crime”.
OK for Illegal Aliens to use ‘ignorance of the law’ as an excuse.
NOT OK for US citizens, however.
After all “ES LA LEY!”
Verstehen Sie, Untermensch!
So we need a new federal law that makes it a felony to KNOWINGLY or UNKNOWINGLY use false identity documents in any job application, I’d application, or any other contract or interaction with any company, individual or government entity.
Because he bought the SSN thinking (presumably) it was his property and no one else’s.
Illegals and legal immigrants don’t understand the system here so these types of stories can seem bizarre to us.
The persons who are truly culpable are those that sold him the SSN and took his money or his sponsor’s money.
The Justices were basically saying this was not a felony but a misdemeanor. The question is was he deported?
Although it appears I am defending the Justices here, I am actually against this decision and against their increasingly liberal leaning decisions.
I think a hard line is now warranted in America.
Having this illegal nailed with a felony and made to do hard time should send a message to other illegals that touching someone’s ID documents is going to bring Hell down upon them.
And I am fully aware that those ID documents allowed this illegal dupe to register to vote thereby also stealing the voting right of the genuine person behind the ID documents and giving political power to the seditious organizers behind all these Ignacios.
In light of the SCOTUS failing to protect traditional American society, these Justices need to feel the heat big time.
Flores committed identity fraud. He or the fake id factory pulled the SS number out of the air. Let's say it was your SS number. When the SS deduction from his check was sent to SS, it is possible that it could accrue to your SS account, giving you more money when you enrolled in SS. But, more likely, SS recognized the problem and put that money in the Earnings Suspense File.
Identity Theft is assuming both the name and SS number of someone else. Often this is done to commit fraud, but it is works only if the name/SS stolen has a high credit rating and a substantial level of un-used credit.
Most prosecutors differentiate between identity theft to commit fraud and identity theft to work. When identity theft for work is committed, credit rating is un-important. They want a name and number that will pass the fedgov employee verification system. Identity fraud won't pass the employee verification system
There are identity theft rings operating in numerous US businesses that participate in the Employee Verification System. The ring bribes a clerk who works in the Human Resources dept who has access to ex-employee files and can easily find names/SS numbers that have previously passed the Employee Verification System
Maybe the illegal alien was told that the documents were made up, i.e., the name, SS#, etc. were made from whole cloth.
It's actually quite simple. Illegals can do whatever they want... drink and drive without a license, steal identities, and have their unvaccinated children attend school. Laws only apply to the citizens that pay for everything.
You're welcome!
Technically the court is correct from the point of a criminal prosecution. This requires the famous “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard of proof. Civil liability would be a different story.
Forgetting details of law is often a sign of having fallen into a rage. How dare that blankety blank do that, let us throw any old book any which way. But that is to throw in with the moral side of the lawbreaker. Satan never can cast out Satan.
He could argue that, for all he knew, the number he bought was simply made up and belonged to nobody. Therefore, no theft. The burden of proving otherwise is on the prosecution.
Employers are supposed to receive "no-match" letters from the Social Security Administration informing them of any employees they may have whose SSN's do not match with their names. However, as you can see from the link, the 'Rats made sure the process of resolving do-not-matches is complex and subjects the employer to legal risk. We wouldn't want employers actually catching illegals, would we?