Posted on 09/16/2014 10:32:38 AM PDT by MNDude
OK, we get it. Millennials are leaving the church in droves! Sound the alarms! Circle the wagons!
Not much makes me angrier than seeing those articles that make the rounds on Facebook every few months. You know the ones: a pastor claims to know why Millennials are really walking away from church. This particular article has proven especially resilient; it pops up in my Newsfeed every few months, to much acclaim. This one, the one that really pushed my buttons and prompted me to finally start the blog we’ve been talking about for a month now, calls these articles to task, purporting to know “how the church really lost the millennials.” (Cliff notes: it says the exact same thing as all the other articles.) This one innovatively shifts the focus to Sunday School rather than youth group, but the conclusion is the same.
(Excerpt) Read more at swingingfromgrapevines.wordpress.com ...
Ah, gotcha.
(Didn't mean to come off as "starting a war".)
I should have made that more clear.
Gotcha / No problems.
Matthew 22
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
I've seen it and I am an "old folk".
But, personally, I find the religious education in my parish to be horrible. I was raised Protestant. In my congregation the kids had Sunday school. And we learned the bible. We were told the traditional stories. We talked about what they meant. We talked about the “every day” phrases you hear that are taken from the bible. And we were given context.
I married a catholic. The kids were raised catholic. I did more Sunday school after CCD just so my kids would be biblically literate.
Most of my kids friends have no idea what their religion is about. Here in the northeast if you try to have an intelligent discussion about church, the bible, or morals, people look at you like you are trying to be Jimmy Swaggart.
LGBTQ is a MODERNIST MYTH!!!
I'm not saying that the unrighteous will inherit the kingdom of God.
But the very scriptures you post attest to the transformative power of God through Jesus.
(1 John 3:4-10)
Everyone who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God’s seed abides in them; they cannot sin, because they have been born of God. The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love their brothers and sisters.
(James 5:13-20)
Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up; and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. Elijah was a human being like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth yielded its harvest.
My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and is brought back by another, you should know that whoever brings back a sinner from wandering will save the sinner’s soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Just this past week I read another evaluation of churches and that that person was threatening to leave also.
It is called Revelations Chapter 1 and 2.
Jesus threatens to leave the church(remove his lampstand) unless................(sorry, you will have to go read it yourself)
Here in the northeast if you try to have an intelligent discussion about church, the bible, or morals, people look at you like you are trying to be Jimmy Swaggart.
$16.60
Name 10 state capitals.
Sante Fe, Pierre, Austin, Juno, Boise, Columbus, ...that's all that come instantly to mind.
Recite the Pledge.
Which one?
What is water made of?
Two parts Hydrogen, one part Oxygen.
What does our First Amendment say?
Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof, nor prohibitting the free excercise of speech or the press. (Yeah, I know I'm misremembering, but it's a prohibition on Congress passing laws restricting the press, speech, religion or imposing religion.)
What's the difference between AM and FM radio?
Amplitude (the size of the wave) vs. Frequency (how quickly the wave cycles).
When did we land on the moon?
1969
No, you're more indoctrinated, not educated.
I don't disagree about that for the public education system.
John Gatto has an interesting, and informative article here, and another here.
I think that this is a big part of why the young `uns
are leaving.
(On cynical days, I think that to be by design, rather than accidental… one Freeper described it as the result of Spiritual Strip-mining
).
Most of my kids friends have no idea what their religion is about. Here in the northeast if you try to have an intelligent discussion about church, the bible, or morals, people look at you like you are trying to be Jimmy Swaggart.
That is so sad.
Some of the most interesting discussions touch religion.
it’s up to 5 letters now?
The B stands for bestiality I suppose?
took a couple weeks but i'm lovin' it
Amen.
Well, I read the article, and I was overwhelmed with the egocentric whining. Now I have no doubt there’s useful information in that signal, but it might not be what the author thinks is the useful part of that message. What this whole diatribe misses, by miles, is the premise of assembling with other believers is not to demand something for ourselves, but that we have a duty to worship God and serve and love the body of Christ. This is not an option, like adding a new app to one’s ipad. This is an obligation, like eating and breathing. The authentic believer can’t not go to church.
This is a huge difference in the generations. It’s one of the reasons we’re currently losing the political war with the liberals. They’ve turned so many of us into entitlement babies. “I deserve to be heard, I need to feel safe, I I I....” Whatever happened to hey, this guy’s roof is leaking, and he can’t afford to fix it, what can we do about that? Or we’re running short on Sunday school teachers for kindergarteners, any volunteers? Or this young family needs and older couple to mentor them through this difficult time. Where is all that?
And here’s another thing. My dad would have washed my mouth out with soap for even mentioning some of these moral deviancies, let alone making them feel safe in church. Others here have already said it, but church is not safe. If the preacher is walking with God and teaching God’s word faithfully, every single sermon should challenge us to become better servants of Christ, better examples of HIs love, more faithful witnesses to His Gospel.
In short, if the poor millennial is bored, it’s because either the pastor is not preaching from a position of spiritual power, or because he is, but the millennial (or any other such bored person) is not listening to the Spirit of God. Church isn’t an extension of some dry “Bible as literature” education series. It’s about the word of God being activated by the Spirit of God to serve as a mirror to see myself the way God sees me, and a light to show me the way of love and service to Him and to His family, my brothers and sisters in Christ.
And none of that works if the premise is entitlement.
More to say, but it’s late and I must get to bed.
Peace,
SR
I’m just sharing the perspective he shared with me.
He wants nothing to do with such a group of consistently jealous, conniving, lying, holier-than-thou jerks (he uses much stronger language). Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has seen this his entire childhood, someone who knew these people since before he could walk, and imagine trying to grasp that the Jesus portrayed in the bible has self-professing followers that act this way all the time. Then ask yourself if you want anything to do with that. Some branches of the vine have some awful, bitter fruit. When that’s all you know, you don’t want to eat it.
I know I’ve been there a couple times myself. I got to the point of just wanting to worship at home and not go to another church. That is why, after 20 years, I walked away from the pharisee-laden Southern Baptists. After trying out a few non-denominational churches, I started going to (and serving in) a Calvary Chapel affiliate.
Calvary Chapel was recommended to me by a missionary I met in Iraq. He told me about the many miraculous close-calls and answered prayers he had encountered as a foreign missionary in some very dangerous places. I was impressed with the way he lives his faith without a safety net while the vast majority of the Christians I know never remove their training wheels. I figure that a church that can produce this kind of person (and I’ve known several others now, as well) and consistently challenge me intellectually, is what I’m looking for.
Agreed 100%.
No, that’s true: you didn’t explicitly call a retreat, or ask for explicit “Gospel-lite”... but you *did* say that those who called the author out for his “gay-friendly”, selfishness-laden article were running afoul of the Letter of St. James, and you *did* assume that the FReepers who were calling out the obvious selfishness-laden and politically-liberal-laden article had no interest in “calling back these sinners”... and I don’t see how you could assume that reasonably. I read and re-read their posts, and they said nothing except criticisms of the ARGUMENT and the (rather obvious) ATTITUDE and WORLDVIEW BEHIND the argument. One commenter said that such people were heading for hell, unless they repent (and what reasonable person could argue with that?).
Being admonished will NOT feel good to these people (or to anyone else); we can’t simply see someone get his nose out of joint (or imagine it) and somehow “induce” that the original commenter was being unkind, uncivil, unloving, in violation of James, etc. That’s why some other FReepers (and I, frankly) were starting to wonder whether you were confusing “love, gentleness, and kindless” (which are Godly and Biblical) with “being nice” (which is not).
You obviously mean well, FReind... and I agree with a good deal of what you say. But your suggestions that the other FReepers (to whom you responded earlier, re: James) were somehow in the wrong (or doing things improperly, or violating charity, kindness, etc.) were simply off-target, I think.
*Fantastic* post!! (at #96)
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