Libertarian Folly: Why Everybody is a Social-issues Voter

American Thinker ^ | 08/07/2014 | Selwyn Duke

[SeekAndFind]

There is this notion, one we hear more and more, that the Republican Party has to shed the social issues to seize the future. “Social issues are not the business of government!” says thoroughly modern millennial. It’s a seductive cry, one repeated this past Tuesday in an article about how some young libertarians dubbed the “Liberty Kids” are taking over the moribund Los Angeles GOP. Oh, wouldn’t the political landscape be simple if we could just boil things down to fiscal responsibility? But life is seldom simple.

If you would claim to be purely fiscal, or assert that “social issues” should never be government’s domain, I’d ask a simple question: would you have no problem with a movement to legalize pedophilia?

Some responses here won’t go beyond eye-rolling and scoffing. Others will verbalize their incredulity and say that such a movement would never be taken seriously. This is not an answer but a dodge. First, the way to determine if one’s principles are sound is by seeing if they can be consistently applied. For instance, if someone claims he never judges others, it’s legitimate to ask whether he remains uncritical even of Nazis and KKK members; that puts the lie to his self-image. And any thinking person lives an examined life and tries to hone his principles.

[trisham]

Yes, that seems to be so.

[DJ MacWoW]

“To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys…whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be over thrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow form them must fall with them”
Jedediah Morse (1761-1826) Patriot & “Father of American Geography”

[wagglebee]

Ah, so that's where I made my mistake. I didn't see abortion in the "proper context".

Exactly!

Libertarians can be "very much anti-abortion" (and keep in mind that anti-abortion is quite different from pro-life), but they see abortion in the "proper context" and that it's society's issue on and not government's. Therefore, libertarians are "very much anti-abortion," but, "it's the woman's right to choose."

[Boogieman]

“It is IMPOSSIBLE to be a devout Catholic or a social conservative and be libertarian on issues such as abortion and homosexuality.”

Well, one doesn’t need to be liberal on issues like abortion and homosexuality in order to be a libertarian. People who like to bash libertarians want to draw that narrow definition, and then force all libertarians into that box, but that isn’t reality.

[PGR88]

We hold these truths to be self-evident,

Ha - yes, they are self-evident! They are beyond Government, are written on the hearts of every man, and given to us by God. Unfortunately, we now have activist, debt-ridden, massive progressive Government that has taken on itself the right to decide what "rights" should be, including abortion, gay marriage etc... And because it is so huge and can print money at will - it will force these absurd views on society.

[redgolum]

Libertarianism is something many of us have flirted with. Heck, I did as a young college student. Once I started studying philosophy and actually worked through the implications, I realized that it was actually libertine.

Simply put, all societies organize themselves according to their moral outlook. From speed limits to dress codes. To dump all that and go to “What I want to do is all!” leads not to a nice polite society, but anarchy.

[wagglebee]

Social issues should be in the realm of state governments and not the federal government.

Yeah, because letting each state define who was and who wasn't a "person" worked so damn well with slavery.

[LevinFan]

” But SOCIETY stigmatized, made illegal
and/or shunned people who engaged in
them”

That is the point of the article, and myself. Society created LAW to control those actions.They didn’t shrug their shoulders.

This article isn’t about spendthrift government. This article is about moral laws. About whether it is proper for society to make moral law. This much is impossible to refute. Evil prospers when good men do nothing.

[Boogieman]

“Absolute nonsense, libertarianism is about NOT being a social and national defense conservative.”

No, libertarianism is not defined as a reaction to conservatism. The ideas of libertarianism pre-existed the modern conservative movement, so that is an absurd contention.

[wagglebee]

Of course they're not pro-life, they just know better than to admit it openly to conservatives.

[Responsibility2nd]

Well, one doesn’t need to be liberal on issues like abortion and homosexuality in order to be a libertarian.

True. One can be liberal on other issues too. Pro-dope, pro-porn, open borders, etc.... Libertarians are wong on LOTS of issues. And what they are right on, is stuff they glom from conservatives.

Basic fundamental stuff here: A libertarian is a Social Liberal. And as such, they are useless.

[ansel12]

Nonsense, libertarianism is about being left wing except on economics.

A bizarre fantasy, but one which is helping to move America left as they war against conservatism and God.

[PGR88]

A moral-less libtardian view that everyone can just do what they want leads to people that get drunk/stoned a lay around making more leeches for taxpayers to support.

You are missing part of the equation. Libertarians would say - government can not and should not control people, so let them take drugs - but let them suffer the consequences too without taxpayers getting involved or creating a nanny state to deal with it. Before long, society (and the family) will take over, as it should (and as it once did) to shun drug use, to stigmatize it, to penalize it, and to let civil society (churches, etc...) deal with those who do. There were few controls on Marijuana in the 1920's - why did our parents and grandparents know no one who ever smoked it then?

[trisham]

Of course they're not pro-life, they just know better than to admit it openly to conservatives.

**************************

I'm not sure that I ever fully understood that, but I do now.

[ansel12]

Well, one doesn’t need to be liberal on issues like abortion and homosexuality in order to be a libertarian.

One can be a bad libertarian, or confused, but why would they support a movement and identify themselves as part of it, and promote and defend it, if they disagree with it?

[PGR88]

Therefore, libertarians are "very much anti-abortion," but, "it's the woman's right to choose."

What you say is incorrect. Does not the child have rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? If you think a libertarian believes a mother can kill a child simply because of her own inconvenience, then you just haven't learned enough about it.

[i_robot73]

Sorry, but bullsh!t. The social issues didn’t manifest until AFTER the Progressive/Liberal gov’t kicked-in: Before welfare, there was relatively low out-of-wedlock, low no-daddy@home. Before the Dept.ofEduc, we had better test scores, etc.

It’s the crippling of social-ital issues from the crushing taxation of the Nanny State, not the other way around.

[monocle]

Amendments to the Constitution resolved that issue among other issues.

[Beagle8U]

“You are missing part of the equation. Libertarians would say - government can not and should not control people, so let them take drugs - but let them suffer the consequences too without taxpayers getting involved or creating a nanny state to deal with it. Before long, society (and the family) will take over, as it should (and as it once did) to shun drug use, to stigmatize it, to penalize it, and to let civil society (churches, etc...) deal with those who do. There were few controls on Marijuana in the 1920’s - why did our parents and grandparents know no one who ever smoked it then?”

So the libtardian world only works once every social program is removed? What is your plan to make that happen?

Can you run on that platform and win? Is there a plan that goes farther than smoking lots of dope and...?

[CatherineofAragon]

"One can be a libertarian and be a social conservative. For example, Ron Paul, who everyone here loves to hate, is very much anti-abortion. But he sees it in the proper context... "

********************************** "Ah, so that's where I made my mistake. I didn't see abortion in the "proper context"."

Just wow.