Posted on 07/23/2014 5:01:03 AM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo
KIEV, Ukraine – Two Ukrainian military fighter jets have been shot down in the east, according to the country's Defense Ministry.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Then someone is lying. Kiev says the jets were at 17,000 feet, that’s outside the engagement envelope for an SA-24 or an SA-16. And, as noted by previous posters, a single shot from a MANPAD would have to be very lucky to down a multi-engine military aircraft.
All empires have unhealthy trait to expand beyond the level of sustenance and collapse suddenly. American empire shows the same syndrome. If you do not believe me, look around you.
Barbarians are already at the gate. Far away provinces are at the stage of perpetual unrest, the enemies are circling their wagons and at home decay and decadence are rampant.
Oh yes, and Nero is amusing himself while Rome burns.
So you are against our interests abroad! You just said it! Geez the gall!
We have not invaded Ukraine, and building ties with Ukraine will result in a more democratic and less corrupt (absence of Russian control in Ukraine) Ukraine and that is good for us and in our interests.
You are supporting just the opposite a stronger Russia while Obama fiddles. Useful idiot or agent you work against our best interests.
Russia has invaded Ukraine and if the fiddler in the WH does nothing or maybe expressed more accurately continues to help Russia we are all that much closer to a shooting war with Russia as a result of Ukraine falling completely to Russian expansionism. Russia must not prevail, we must prevail in spite of Obama and his cowardliness. We have always lost from positions of weakness and weak Presidents and your side enables and supports that very weakness.
We need strong leadership and a weakened soviet...ah Russia empire and that is not US empire building, Ron Paulbot!
You have to understand that the World does not accept WH claims as a gospel any more. U.S. deceived the World so many times that even allies ask - where is the beef?
There isn't any.
Take for example today's editorial in French Le Figaro.
The article is quite telling since Le Figaro is neither pro-Russian nor more anti-American than the rest of French MSM.
Germans press is no different.
What is seldom reported is the fact that there were several Western airliners in the vicinity just before the crash. Chances are they were carrying sigint gathering equipment as well.
I suspect that the release of black boxes and Russian statement to the media were timed to coincide, and that EU countries got all the facts beforehand to verify from their own sources. There were also two airborne NATO AWACS at the time. Not to mention spy satellites of other countries beside Russia and the U.S.
It is like a game of cards where all players at the table counted the cards and the U.S. is attempting to call bluff and refuses to show cards.
Because of the rampant misuse of tust in the past (KAL 007, WMD, Assad's nerve gas attack, to name a few) American word WITHOUT proof is not taken seriously.
Serious people are not fooled easily with "as reported on Facebook and Twitter".
Where are the original recordings of Kiev ATC and KH17? How Kiev ATC reacted when KH17 veered off the path after Donetsk fly-by? How Kiev knew right away BUK was used? Why Kiev refused to admit that SU-25 was 3mi from KH17?
Why the photo of BUK taken in Krasnoarmeysk (under Kiev control) is used by the U.S. as an evidence of insurgents having BUK? Why Kiev flew fighter jet on commercial aviation corridor? Why Kiev deployed BUKs and kupola radar near the crash site? Why the U.S. ignores the existence of Kiev BUKs on that fateful day?
There are at least 20 more questions to ask, many of them Why?
In the name of open discussion, try to answer to at least some of them.
In my view, MH17 is Flying Maine, Flying Lusitania and may God helps us all.
I don’t buy the WH bs any more than you do but I do believe the US intel on the facts regarding Russia. Our military people are still brave honorable patriots even with the traitor in the WH. What I also don’t buy is the Kremlim bs Paulbot conspiracy shite you do.
Staging coup is not peaceful activity. Especially when this coup brings Neo-Nazis and other assorted idiots to power who are bent to destabilize Europe.
EU tried to warn U.S. about the consequences. In the memorable quote of Victoria Nuland :F#$# the EU.
It shows intent to create havoc. What we are seeing now is the outcome.
The situation is comparable with Brzezinsky's strategy of poking the bear by arming Bin Laden in Afghanistan, and as a result Eagle being caught in the very same bear trap.
It will get ugly in Ukraine. The only good news is that Ukraine is not a nuclear power any longer.
No doubt about that. The problem is that their hard work is being misused by those in power who do not give a hoot about patriotism. Then win even when America lose.
~The situation is comparable with Brzezinsky’s strategy of poking the bear by arming Bin Laden in Afghanistan, and as a result Eagle being caught in the very same bear trap.~
Yep, old scumbag - Al-Qaeda’s Godfather defended his support of OBL, stressing that 9/11 was a ‘little cost’ for dismantling an ‘Evil Empire’.
Complete nonsense / propaganda. The law that was passed simply made Ukrainian the official language for gov't business. There was no "BAN" on usage otherwise, or even discouragement. Indeed much of the "Nazi junta" you speak of (which is now superseded by a popularly elected President) does often speak Russian. The same elected legislature (BTW) that passed the measure rolled it back immediately.
Now, I CAN see that Kiev has a serious flaw: They are at a 10:1 disadvantage in ability to spew crap.
They ARE in THEIR OWN country.
Like Igor Ivanovich Strelkov, eh?
Your comparison is invalid. The Taliban came to power because the US did not follow up, and Pakistan did.
As for Maydan, our (U.S.) actions were ineffective / had little to no effect on the occurrence of or eventual outcome. Ie., Maydan was going to happen regardless. Possibly our influence accelerated it a bit, which may have reduced bloodshed.
DTA >>> One of the first laws Kiev junta declared was to BAN the use of Russian language in Ukraine.
Paul R. >>> Complete nonsense / propaganda. The law that was passed simply made Ukrainian the official language for gov’t business. There was no “BAN” on usage otherwise, or even discouragement. Indeed much of the “Nazi junta” you speak of (which is now superseded by a popularly elected President) does often speak Russian. The same elected legislature (BTW) that passed the measure rolled it back immediately.
...............................................
And here is what keeps happening here. The Pro-Ruskie lies....you reply with the facts/truth...WTA won’t challenge you because he knows he is lying .... but he say the same thing in other threads like he was never caught in the lie.
This happens over and over again on here in FR threads dealing with matter..lie after lie after misdirection .... being shown to be lies and the Pro Russian group either tries misdirecting or has no replies but keeps telling the same lies over and over again in thread after thread.
I have no respect for these liars, they are doing a disservice to FReeperdom.
WTA = DTA
Let's see.
The language law of 2012 allowed the use of minority languages in all municipalities with the minority population exceeding 10%. Not only Russian, but Hungarian as well.
After the coup, Parliament introduced bill to abolish 2012 language law and ban the use of minority languages for official use and voted 232/450 for it.
In Europe banning minority languages for the official government use is considered to be severe violation of human rights. Hungary expressed concern about the minority rights of Hungarians in Ukraine being trampled with this bill and exercised pressure on Kyiv Junta through EU.
Organisation for Security cooperation in Europe (OSCE) also put the pressure on Ukraine for the intent to ban Russian language in the media.. U.S.A. is also member of OSCE.
The bill was NOT "rolled back" as you say, but the acting president was armtwisted not to sign it into the law because it is against the EU norms and embarrassed EU for supporting the Junta.
Without Hungarian minority, Hungary would not exercise the pressure through EU. What is important here is the intent of the Junta to ban Russian language in official Government use and ban Russian language in media use.
The fact that you do not agree with me does not give you the right to call it complete nonsense/propaganda and respond in a way that is not factual.
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