Posted on 07/19/2014 4:54:40 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
David Cameron has raised the prospect of further sanctions against Russia as the West's relations with Vladimir Putin grew increasingly strained following the apparent shooting down of flight MH17 over Ukraine by pro-Moscow separatists.
In a sign of a hardening attitude, David Cameron said Europe and the West must "fundamentally change our approach" unless the Russian president alters course.
The comments came after a day which saw the Government adopt a tougher approach to Moscow, with Russia's ambassador summoned to the Foreign Office and Philip Hammond claiming Mr Putin was not doing enough to use his influence over the rebels in Ukraine.
The US and EU had ratcheted up sanctions against Russia shortly before the aircraft was brought down with the loss of 298 lives, but Mr Cameron indicated that an even tougher regime might be required.
Writing in the Sunday Times he said: "We must establish the full facts of what happened. But the growing weight of evidence points to a clear conclusion: that MH17 was blown out of the sky by a surface-to-air missile fired from a rebel-held area.
"If it is the case, then we must be clear what it means: this is a direct result of Russia destabilising a sovereign state, violating its territorial integrity, backing thuggish militias, and training and arming them.
"We must turn this moment of outrage into a moment of action."
That action must go wider than just bringing those responsible to justice, he said ...
Experts from the Metropolitan Police are due to arrive in Ukraine today to assist in the grim task of recovering, identifying and repatriating the bodies of those killed.
A team of six investigators from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch is already in the country, working with international counterparts...
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
~You a Russian poster / Putin propagandist / collaborator who signed up here Match 19 2014 is allowed to lie and spin for this KGB monster !
Unreal.~
What lie and what am I spinning? BTW, I haven’t ever voted for Putun.
Why did you sign up here on March 19 2014 and proceed to post non stop uncut KGB fed propaganda here.
Who are you ?
Is any opinion or fact (if you can see the difference between it) you don’t like a ‘KGB propaganda’? I’m not propagating a thing here.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. I think these people that shot down this plane were less trained or they would have not shot down a passenger plane. Better trained people would not have screwed up like that and there is nothing for them to gain by shooting down a commercial airliner and they now expose themselves to being hassled big time.
Russia has nothing to gain itself by shooting down a commercial airliner. More likely it was rebels armed by Russia
Your sense would be wrong for a number of reasons. First, there's no evidence that we "covertly" agitated anything, despite constant claims by the Alex Jones and Ron Paul types; next, your "legitimately elected president" was having people picked up and tortured by the Berkut and then, when things started to heat up, had people shot. Did we make him do that? There is plenty of blame to go around and why can't we mind our own business?
What the hell are we even doing that ticks you guys off so much anyway? The Ukrainians will be lucky they aren't half drowned in their own blood before Obozo gets off the golf course.
By the way, the Iranians launched that airline from the same airport they were launching military planes. They also ignored repeated contacts and warnings. Sounds like martyrdom to me.
It came up way back in June when my sister visited; she is well versed in foreign policy, I said what I suspected and she agreed. Many talking about a proxy war, main characters would be us and Russia.
Did we make Yankovitch or whatever his name is do it, no, wasn't sure who was a thug. Seems like they all are.
What are we doing that ticks me off? Egypt, Lybia, I think maybe the public stopped them just in time not to go into Syria on the rebels' side, 90% against.
So it's hard to keep track of, admit to looking at Alex but I can tell ahead of time the position he will take on any given matter.
So maybe you are better versed in the sequence of events in Ukraine, but it's not wrong of me to wish that our relations with Russia hadn't turned so sour. First it was Obama will have more flexibility on nukes, open mike, shocking, he's wanting to emasculate our services and fired a whole lot of nuke experts for something that didn't sound too egregious especially compared with just a tiny fraction of what he has done.
Then he got into a pissin' contest with Putin because Putin showed him up on Syria I think it was. Yes, I remembered, and it was the chemical weapons Putin brokered the deal on. I'm mad that our relations had to deteriorate to this point.
And Putin has watched us blunder all over the Middle East and most importantly has not forgotten our role in nearly bankrupting them before.
It's not going away now. Putin may feel like the Ukraine was given away not that long ago which was once the very heart and soul of Russia. He grabbed for the Crimea, and now we don't know how far he will go or how much he is doing because we have major antagonized him, childishly I might add.
But Russia has everything to gain from the closing of the east-west air corridor over Ukraine which has already happened because of the shootdown.
Why?
McCain(, and his twin Lindsey), is just plain scary.
It forces all air traffic to and from Asia to go well south and bottleneck over Turkey and costing all the flights money and time and fuel and safety.
And if they want to go north of Ukraine then he will shut that too.
And Russia gains...how?
Yes it is especially since the media purposely picks on McCain (don't know as much about Lindsey) because he sounds like such an idiot and makes Republicans look really stupid which is exactly what they want to do.
I can't really ignore him but he is incapable of rational thought if he ever was and I'm sick of it because I see what they are doing.
Payback against the West for putting economic sanctions on him.
You cost my economy — I will cost your economy.
Hundreds of flights per day went through that Ukraine corridor — now that’s been taken away and the corridor that they have to fly is longer and will cost them more in fuel.
Don't take offense, but probably best not to make conclusions like this if all you can get out of it is a "seeming." Either something is or it isn't. You ought to look for the truth, and not rest on speculation.
As for Alex Jones, that's your first mistake. He is a dufus and likely a Russian plant himself. I remember when he was sucking up for Putin during the fraudulent elections, he and his website were parroting Russian media.
When Russian media tells you that there is a "proxy" war, they are only projecting their own guilt.
The only way this will work is if we also put sanctions on Russia’s allies, including China, Belarus, and Kazakhstan (if they dont play ball); and start a massive arms buildup in Poland and the Baltic states. We also may consider a ground invasion of Cuba and assassinating/arresting the leader of Venezuela.
What will make him wake up and take notice is American/NATO military forces conducting exercises in the Baltic States, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc, and military hardware delivered to the Ukrainians.
He’s playing hardball and we are tossing creampuffs. Russia has lots of trading partners and lots of oil and gas.
And we should put in that missile system Bush was talking about.
Putin needs to understand that if he wants to start the Cold War again, we can destroy his economy in a combination of ways.
I don’t see how they have anything to gain from shooting down a commercial airliner. On the airspace point — what has Russia to gain from keeping commercial planes from flying over Ukraine. Just curious what you are thinking.
They certainly have nothing to lose —
What has this incident cost them???
It cost them one SAM — they have thousands.
They could care less about public opinion especially with their 5th estate propagandists blaming this on everyone else.
It will now cost every plane travelling east-west about $1500 more per flight for fuel.
Putin now has something to trade to compel the removal of those economic sanctions — you remove the sanctions and I will remove the SAMs from the hands of the Donetskian rebels so the corridor can be reopened.
Ok. Thanks. I have no idea where you are going with your line of thinking. Have a nice afternoon.
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