Posted on 07/17/2014 8:22:55 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
Russian President Vladimir Putin Thursday blamed the Ukrainian government for the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, saying the state bears some responsibility for fighting that may have led to the jet’s apparent downing by a surface-to-air missile.
“I would like to point out in this regard, that this tragedy would not have occurred if there was peace in that land, at least, if hostilities had not resumed in the South-East of Ukraine,” Putin said. “And without question, the state over whose territory this took place, bears responsibility for this awful tragedy.”
(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnews.com ...
Good grief. Chances are it was an accident. It wasn’t the Rothschilds.
Remind me, who brought up the Serbia [sic] airliner, and its relevance to this thread?
A couple of the posters on this thread are almost there.
then they come across as clueless when attacks happen anyway, after trillions spent, and their only answer at that point is a call for war.
Standard operation procedure for the Russian potato heads, as Cynwoody pointed out.
I stand corrected, no problem, I just can't type well due to a recent injury I'm recovering from
Sucks, too, making typos and taking forever to say something, blah. You should see the ones when I can't get my fingers on the home row. Like "oq mdc, 23yoql;lw??"
But so what if it's Dogpatch Airlines or any other? Shangra La, whatever?
IMHO the point isn't which airline in that case or this. The point is there's a history of lax controls and mistakes in the Ukraine military when it comes to SAMs. A separatist who knew how to use the missiles learned how in that lax system. People shoot down planes by mistake and the shooters try to hide the facts. So Putin is the evil dude in the mix in both cases? The Ukraine is not responsible even when they control the trigger, right? Not then, not now if it had been Kiev Army units doing the shooting? That's what comes across from some people if that's what they are trying to say or not.
I'm sure that if Kiev Army units had done it, had video of a Kiev NG guys tracking, launching, following the path of the missile, and cheering over the shoot-down, someone would assure me it was all a Russian clandestine operation within the ranks of the Kiev NG and Russia is really responsible.
The most likely shooters are the separatists, no doubt about it. Russia has nothing to gain by downing an airliner but Kiev has plenty to gain by pretending Russia had some say in the plane being shot down. Like I've said before, it doesn't matter what happens a lot of people are happy say "Russia did it" the same way people say, "It's Bush's fault" about everything to this day.
Fine with me if they think that way but it doesn't make a bit of sense.
Russia probably wasn't covering when at first they said Ukraine didn't do it back in 2001. It's probably a case of their taking the word of unreliable people in Ukraine and finding out they were lying only after having egg on their face. So, people in charge in Ukraine who came up through the same corrupt system that probably lied to Putin then are now more reliable sources?
It seems to me Putin isn't covering for anyone. He's avoiding anything but the "larger picture" by saying that had there been no coup there would have been no shoot down and were there no fighting no one would be using SAMs.
That's no different than the US claim that cutting off aid to Egypt because the Egyptian military went after the MB hammer and tong is standing up for democracy. Well, maybe so in the broadest theoretical sense, but in reality it's aiding the MB the only way we can by trying to weaken their Egyptian opposition. Putin is at best avoiding damning the separatists, not "covering" for them now and I doubt he was deliberately doing so in 2001. Is that aiding them? Not a whole Hell of a lot as of yet.
IMHO, Putin xhould have condemned the shooters right off the bat whether he identified them as one group or another. But right off the bat Kiev blamed Russia when Putin knew it wasn't his units why wouldn't he hang back and listen to those who wanted to believe Kiev may have done it if they were anxious to blame him rather than the most probable shooters? Maybe there was a reason to doubt it was separatists, maybe not, but blaming Russia first was bound feed the theory that Kiev forces may have done it however unlikely that may be.
Avoiding the issue by moving to a broader view is the nature of idiotic international game playing that passes for diplomacy these days. It's always about abstracting away anything between you and your goal no matter who "you" is. Kiev routinely blaming Russia for what Ukrainians are doing is a way of deliberately trying to get Russia more involved, not a way to avoid it.
Regards, thanks for the correction.
But, that's pretty damn obvious now isn't it?
The never saw it coming, dear. They were at cruising altitude, keeping an eye on a weather system to their SW and letting autopilot handle the intricacies of flying. Then they suffered catastrophic engine failure and cabin decompression (the fuselage being ripped apart by warhead impact or close-aboard detonation). Then they died.
You’re a shameless Putin apologists. Did you support him when he was with the KGB and did you then support the Gulag? Why do you post on an American Conservative website if you favor an autocrat?
So you know who shot the plane down and you know it was due to laxness? Did you apologize for the KGB too when Putin worked for them?
Russia would only look bad by downing a passenger jet.
Yes, indeed. It's wrong to shoot down passenger planes - malum in se.
There is no defense or explanation that is adequate. And, there's no way to undo what has been done.
People now see the real Putin and just how reckless he has been. I've never been able to understand how some people could admire or defend the guy. He's a thug and a puke.
I don't apologize for what I didn't do nor do I apologize for Ukrainians shooting down airliners.
The Ukrainians who did it can apologize at their trial if they want to, it's up to them.
Apparently you figure anyone who is Ukrainian is still Russian, right? Interesting, I know the most probable shooters are Ukrainian separatists. UKRAINIAN, a difficult concept for you, I'm sure.
Well, everyone born in Ukraine prior to Independence has "Russian" on their birth certificate so anyone who doesn't agree with Kiev is called Russian even if their whole family on both sides has been born in and around Kiev for a couple of hundred years. So, keep on with the BS but it doesn't change a thing.
Had there been no coup none of this would have happened. That's a fact just like whoever shot the plane down, whatever UKRAINIAN that is, should be punished. Again, I realize the fact that it's a civil war is something the Kiev propaganda crew won't admit, but that's the fact.
You think everyone in Ukraine is a Russian. So you were a Stalinist from way back. Man, you’re really, really weird.
“...everyone born in Ukraine prior to Independence has “Russian” on their birth certificate...”
This statement is absolutely wrong. My wife is from the eastern Ukraine (Alchevsk) but her nationality was listed as Georgian because that was the nationality of her father. Others in her extended family were listed as Ukrainian during the Soviet era.
I have friends here who have shown me copies of theirs when they were telling me about this. They were born just south of Kiev in the 1950s and 1960s and both parents were born near Odessa in one case and “in the middle of the country” in one case. I think I could recognize the names of the cities if I saw them on a map but probably only if there aren't similar ones in the map in the area they said they were from.
I've seen these and held them in my hands along with their English language equivalent they had made when they moved to the States.
You can live in Ohio and call yourself a Serb the way some neighbors of mine did when I was a kid but no one recognized Serbia, they recognized Yugoslavia.
1991 was 23 years ago so under International law someone born in Ukraine prior to that date had to have a Soviet passport and was recognized as a Soviet Union citizen. What internal definitions there were are no different than someone calling them self a "Buckeye" or a "Hoosier", they're still a US citizen if they're born in the US.
Apparently there are some differences in birth certificates because now I'm told someone here here has one that's different from what I have see for myself. Under International law, people still got a Soviet passport, not a Ukrainian one or at least that's what I've been shown just like I was shown birth certificates to back up what people were telling me. Their Soviet Passport was superseded by a Russian passport, not a Ukrainian one, and a Ukrainian one shortly thereafter.
A Russian engineer I worked with for a while was born in what's now Belarus, he still had a passport the Soviets issued and it listed him as Russian, not Soviet which surprised me. His Russian passport listed him as Russian as well in spite of his having been born in what's now a foreign country
How and why such things may have varied I don't know but I wouldn't put anything past the crazy bureaucracy that I've had described to me. I've also seen the Kiev crowd call someone a Ukrainian a Ukrainian one day and a few weeks later call them Russian. It was one of the people who worked for the guy the coup threw out. He didn't change his nationality when he was thrown out of his job and replaced but their classification of him changed. That's what triggered my asking the folks I know about this in the first place. Why would he be considered Ukraine one day and Russian a short time later.
You have a major mental malfunction if you think anyone who doesn't agree with you and King Barry is some sort of Putin or Stalin lover.
So let's apply the same standard to you that you apply to others, shall we?
Now, tell me all about how you love and support the Muzzies fighting to overthrow Assad in Syria now. That's another example of US policy and the above board, honest way, our government works these days. Explain why supporting the murder of thousands of Christians is a good US policy move. You have to agree with the people doing that because they're the same wonderful people putting out the BS about Ukraine. Bet you're as pissed about the MB getting slaughtered in Egypt as Barry is, too.
And I just know LBJ (may I live long enough to piss on his grave - - - in keeping with your Muzzie style blessings) is one of your heroes and without a doubt Big Bill Jeff has to be one of your favorite all time folks, right? It's your logic so suck on it.
Enjoy the rest of your Rammy Damn now, ya' hear?
Using your Soviet style thinking everyone in a country formerly under the Soviet Union is a Russian. I don’t mind that you’re dumb. There are a lot of dumb people out there. I do mind that you pollute the site with idiotic comments of a pro-Putin nature.
Using his logic, Stalin was a Russian. And, of course, Stalins mass murder of Ukrainians to break their nationalist sentiments makes no sense since Stalin apparently didn’t understand that the Ukrainians were Russian. After all, it said so on their birth certificates.
You and good old LBJ, two peas in a pod.
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