Posted on 03/23/2014 11:43:14 AM PDT by annalex
Venice, 21 March 2014
Opinion no. 762 / 2014
OPINION
ON “WHETHER THE DECISION TAKEN
BY THE SUPREME COUNCIL
OF THE AUTONOMOUS REPUBLIC OF CRIMEA IN UKRAINE
TO ORGANISE A REFERENDUM
ON BECOMING A CONSTITUENT TERRITORY
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
OR RESTORING CRIMEA’S 1992 CONSTITUTION IS COMPATIBLE
WITH CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES”
adopted by the Venice Commission
at its 98th
Plenary Session
(Venice, 21-22 March 2014)
on the basis of comments by
Mr Peter PACZOLAY (Honorary President, Hungary)
Ms Hanna SUCHOCKA (Member, Poland)
Mr Evgeni TANCHEV (Member, Bulgaria)
Mr Kaarlo TUORI (Member, Finland)
[...]
V. Conclusions
27. The Constitution of Ukraine like other constitutions of Council of Europe member states, provides for the indivisibility of the country and does not allow the holding of any local referendum on secession from Ukraine. This results in particular from Articles 1, 2, 73 and 157 of the Constitution. These provisions in conjunction with Chapter X of the Constitution show that this prohibition also applies to the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the Constitution of Crimea does not allow the Supreme Soviet of Crimea to call such a referendum. Only a consultative referendum on increased autonomy could be permissible under the Ukrainian Constitution.
28. Moreover, circumstances in Crimea did not allow the holding of a referendum in line with European democratic standards. Any referendum on the status of a territory should have been preceded by serious negotiations among all stakeholders. Such negotiations did not take place.
...” he could do so with raw force”.....
What raw force? His military was already there...and under perfectly legal agreements could have 25,000 troops in Ukraine at any time of his choosing....the people voted....chose to go with Russia...the Ukraine Military left their bases and the Russian authorities took over....all without force.
So what raw force are you referring to?
Further Busloads of Crimea citizens recently returned from Russia where they were of course wined and dined and honored at the Kremlin.....since when do you overtake a nation forced upon and then take them to dinner?
Natural the world now wonders if they might loose those who would want to join another nation....and here we are....things have certainly changed....and so has the entire dynamics of the European World Order.
Because the Soviets have no history of fixing elections.
ROTFLOL
I wonder if you actually believe what you what you write. The massive infiltration of special troops IS a great example of raw force. The immediate intimidation of innocent defenseless people and that sham referendum are things you seem proud of??? The sinking of a ship to block movements is force. And perhaps you too are part of the misinformation campaign.
Right.
Nothing like that has ever happened before.
Except in Northern Ireland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Turkey, the Middle Eastern Lands conquered by Muslims, ...
The Sudenten Germans were considered complete pariahs by Hitler...
[Marty Feldman quality eyeroll.]
Two weeks before the Russians entered Crimea, polls by independent pollsters found on slightly more than 40% of Crimea favored independence from Ukraine.
"It doesn't matter who has the votes. All that matters is who counts the votes." Joseph Stalin Vladimir Putin.
Uh huh. And what is the United States doing with Serbia? Raping her vast industrial base? Stealing her natural resources? Occupying her country?
And U.S. client states jumped to recognize stolen Serbian territory as a "independent state".
There are 773 US soldiers in Kosovo. I'm pretty sure if they wanted to vote to be part of Serbia again they wouldn't find a National Guard Reserve unit all that intimidating.
It is worth noting that South Vietnam was also once recognized by U.S. as "independent state".
Yes, and in case you didn't know it, we lost 58,209 of our dads, brothers, husbands and sons trying to keep it that way, in addition to 153,303 wounded and about 2500 still missing.
For some reason U.S.A. love to support decisions of Communist strongmen.
And how exactly did the sacrifices the US made in South Vietnam support the decisions of "communist strongmen?"
Now, it's cry me a river when Ruskies got what is historically theirs.
Their historical hold on Ukraine was so strong that they had to murder ten million Ukrainians and ship millions of ethnic Russians into Ukraine who didn't belong there.
Show me a country who recognized Kosovo as an independent state and I will show you the country contributing to this mess.
Show me a Russian and I'll show you a lying, murdering son of a bitch.
Please reply to me with your novel and interesting theories about the US involvement in South Vietnam, and while you're at it, please also ping the owner of this site.
I just love the smell of charred Russkie in the morning.
Further.... my father also was died while serving in the US Army when I was just 4 yrs. old ...so that an ignoramus uninformed individual like you has the freedom to call his daughter a Neo-Soviet......
He would be proud of me for my approach to the Ukraine situation,...so just knock it off as I asked before.
Must confess the dinner dates are a nice kick back. Who went? All Crimeans? Specially recommended ones? I’d think they would not want stinkers there making a demonstration.
Lets look at this puppy a year down the road and lets ask. Is Crimea happier? Is it free or is it suppressing dissent worse than in Ukraine days lest anyone speak ill of the “revolution”?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-05/behind-kiev-snipers-it-was-somebody-new-coaltion-stunning-new-leak-reveals-truth
"That's ironic, because when it comes to "dirty tricks" what is about to be presented, blows the top off anything Russia may or has done to date.Earlier today an even more shocking recording has been "leaked" this time one between the always concerned about human rights EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet, in which it is revealed on tape that all those photos of horrifying deaths of Ukrainians by snipers during the last days of the Median stand off, were in fact caused not by Snipers controlled by Yanukovich, but that the snipers who shot at both protesters and police in Kiev were allegedly hired by Maidan leaders!"
Anybody who believes that George Soros is ever gonna be on the right side of ANYTHING is a candidate for believing in the Easter Rabbit and the tooth fairy.
It is not "like". Objective evaluations exist for all propositions. For example a referendum done in one week under occupation in a country which constitution forbids it is illegal. Objectively. 2+2=4. Also objectively.
Not "constant". Change, yes; but each change was nevertheless evaluated as for its justice or injustice. This change that Putin forced is not legal. The change of the Maidan, however, is legal.
The history of Europe is indeed long, but so is the history of cooperation between sovereign states. This is why we had the Peace of Westphalia, for example. Europe is not a jungle the putinista try to drag it into. The EU is expressly put together to provide a legal framework for cooperation and stabilize the borders. There is nothing wrong with that.
I agree, except the Soviet Union is not Russia, never was, never will be. The Russian Federation is simply Soviet Union defeated and chopped up. The people did not change in there, they are 90% Soviets. Real Russia may yet live one day, but for now there are more Russians in emigration than in Moscow.
It is indeed what opened up this mess. To condemn the invasion of Crimea is the first step to resolving Kosovo or, at least, make sure it does not happen again. The gravest mistake the conservatives everywhere can make today is to allow Kosovo to become a precedent.
Also, quite formally, Kosovo gained independence over many years, under international observation, following incidents of ethnic cleansing and a civil war. None of that is in evidence in Crimea. So, Kosovo was bad, but this is worse.
... something that suited both Russia TV and the criminal gang he belongs to.
No, not ignored. First, the unidentified bandits without national insignia that RF put in there need to get the hell out of Crimea; second, RF needs to recognize the Ukrainian government; third, RF should negotiate with Ukraine issues of rights of that minority, and offer potential emigrants a RF citizenship, and finally, the issue of possibly setting up a referendum about Crimean status either within or outside of Ukraine can be discussed diplomatically. Obviously from the Report, the Ukrainian constitution does not provide for secession. Most constitutions don't. Ours, for example, doesn't as well. So it is an internal matter of a sovereign state of Ukraine. Since Ukraine wants to join EU and wants economic and political cooperation with Europe, leverage exists to bring about changes that concern Ukrainian citizens of Russian ethnicity.
The RF occupation of Crimea by armed goons without national insignia is use of force regardless if any shots were fired.
since when do you overtake a nation forced upon and then take them to dinner?
In many nations ethnic enclaves exist that might behave like some Crimean Russian ethnics. That does not legitimize the occupation.
Give me a break. Thousands of people stood in that square freezing to death and getting shot at because Soros told them to?
Freezing to death was on them, getting shot was due to the efforts of Soros, our state department, and the neo-Nazis our government is supporting and who were doing the shooting.
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