Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Legality of the Crimean Referendum: Legal Analysis
The Venice Commission, Council of Europe ^

Posted on 03/23/2014 11:43:14 AM PDT by annalex

Legality of the Crimean Referendum: Legal Analysis

Venice, 21 March 2014

Opinion no. 762 / 2014

EUROPEAN COMMISSION FOR DEMOCRACY THROUGH LAW (VENICE COMMISSION)

OPINION

ON “WHETHER THE DECISION TAKEN
BY THE SUPREME COUNCIL
OF THE AUTONOMOUS REPUBLIC OF CRIMEA IN UKRAINE
TO ORGANISE A REFERENDUM
ON BECOMING A CONSTITUENT TERRITORY
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
OR RESTORING CRIMEA’S 1992 CONSTITUTION IS COMPATIBLE
WITH CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES”


adopted by the Venice Commission
at its 98th
Plenary Session
(Venice, 21-22 March 2014)

on the basis of comments by
Mr Peter PACZOLAY (Honorary President, Hungary)
Ms Hanna SUCHOCKA (Member, Poland)
Mr Evgeni TANCHEV (Member, Bulgaria)
Mr Kaarlo TUORI (Member, Finland)

[See full text]

[...]

V. Conclusions

27. The Constitution of Ukraine like other constitutions of Council of Europe member states, provides for the indivisibility of the country and does not allow the holding of any local referendum on secession from Ukraine. This results in particular from Articles 1, 2, 73 and 157 of the Constitution. These provisions in conjunction with Chapter X of the Constitution show that this prohibition also applies to the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the Constitution of Crimea does not allow the Supreme Soviet of Crimea to call such a referendum. Only a consultative referendum on increased autonomy could be permissible under the Ukrainian Constitution.

28. Moreover, circumstances in Crimea did not allow the holding of a referendum in line with European democratic standards. Any referendum on the status of a territory should have been preceded by serious negotiations among all stakeholders. Such negotiations did not take place.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: crimea; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; waronterror; yuliatymoshenko
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161-162 next last
To: CodeToad; HiTech RedNeck
Crimea was stolen from Russia 50 years ago and given to the Ukraine

Yes. To remedy that:

  1. RF needs to legally break with the USSR and restore the legislative and political environment of the Russian Empire.
  2. It should condemn the February and the October revolutions as criminal acts, condemn the Communist ideology and the Soviet culture as a gangrene on the body of Historical Russia.
  3. It should prohibit anyone who held a position of power in the USSR, or who profited from the breakup of the USSR using his KGB ties, from holding any office.
  4. It should declare null and void all acts of the USSR, not just the transfer of Crimea to USSR. It should, for example, return East Prussia.
  5. It should then negotiate problems that arise with the states that are now sovereign.
Right now RF cannot be the rump USSR, wave the red flags and at the same time complain if it faces an anti-Communist revolution. As it stands now a last swindler and alcoholic in Kiev has more right to the entire territory of Ukraine than any of these sovs.
141 posted on 03/25/2014 5:36:55 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: quadrant
Do you dispute the results of the election?

Of course I do. Anyone with the sense of justice should.

The vast majority of the residents of Crimea do not wish to remain as part of Ukraine

I am tiring of repeating this to you. (1) We don't know what the majority wants because the referendum was a farce no campaigning by the pro-Ukrainian side, not even an option to remain in Ukraine on the ballot, foreign occupation and one week to decide that without international observers present. (2) Even if that majority indeed exists after a legally held referendum exposes that fact, Crimea must negotiate it trilaterally and not get war criminals to occupy its territory.

The Soviet Union fell because its political system was steady but not stable, and when the props that supported that steadiness were removed, the system collapsed

Right. It was Reagan's embargo on technological products and the Star War program that caused the "props" for fall. We can do it again.

142 posted on 03/25/2014 5:44:15 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 137 | View Replies]

To: annalex

Says you. Thank God you weren’t a British subject in 1775. You’d have been a Tory.


143 posted on 03/25/2014 5:50:31 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

“Snatching a country away by dishonesty will reap a nemesis, no matter who does it. “

We did it. Britain didn’t allow us to leave as a nation on our own. We killed them for it.


144 posted on 03/25/2014 5:51:59 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

Britain didn’t get killed; it backed off.


145 posted on 03/25/2014 5:56:22 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

And anyhow this was a matter of “horrible king.” That isn’t Crimea’s situation.


146 posted on 03/25/2014 6:10:03 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad
Thank God you weren’t...

Again, you are equating a secession from a distant colonial power, on enumerated grounds, following acts of mutual violence, to which the king could have given a peaceful response but instead responded with military force, -- to a hastily put together farcical referendum under occupation by the very power whose legacy Ukraine is desperately trying to shake off.

The anti-Communist revolution in Ukraine indeed can be likened to the anti-colonial American Revolution. The secession of Crimea under the present circumstances can only be compared to, hypothetically, if one state of the Union, having been a part of the USA for 40 years and without being provoked by the US, would decide to go back to be a British colony and invite British forces on its territory.

Note that I am resorting to any personal characterization. Them's the historical facts.

147 posted on 03/25/2014 6:13:15 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 143 | View Replies]

To: annalex
Justice - that's a very flexible word and one best avoided as its become practically meaningless due to misuse.

I guess we'll see if the majority of the residents of Crimea want to be part of Russia. Lets suppose there are scattered and repeated acts of terrorism; lets suppose there is a mass exodus of people voting with their feet to leave the peninsula; or lets suppose there are mass demonstrations protesting Russian control of Crimea - then I'd be willing to concede the point. But until then, the only result we have is the referendum. You've reduced yourself to arguing the issues surrounding the referendum than the results themselves.

War criminals - come on, lets get away from rhetoric.

Stars wars may have played a part but a small one. Regimes generally fall due to three causes: defeat in war, economic paralysis, and political disintegration. All three came together at the fall of the USSR.

148 posted on 03/25/2014 6:24:05 PM PDT by quadrant (1o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: quadrant
until then, the only result we have is the referendum

It is not a "result" of any kind. It is an exercise of power by the invasion force.

In fact, there was at least once a credible poll there, when Ukraine legitimized the break off of Ukraine, and the Crimeans voted to break off the RF. Not by such a larger margin as the rest of the country, but they did not want to go with Russia then. So the farce that we have to day is not even the "only" anything.

149 posted on 03/25/2014 6:51:39 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: annalex
All politics is to one degree or another an exercise of power.
Please don't tell me you've become one of those who govern their opinions by polls. Polls are the most manipulated thing on this planet.
Again, perhaps a “secret” majority of the Crimeans, want to remain as part of Ukraine, but until some evidence of that desire manifests itself, we are left with the fact that however bent, however thin, the results of the referendum is the only straw on which we can grasp.
But one fact is absolutely certain, if Ukraine fixates on Crimea, it will lose everything. The country will be dismembered by Russia or absorbed entirely by Moscow. If Ukraine tries to lean on the US, NATO, or the EU, it will find that reed not only bent but non-existent.
The geography of Ukraine will never allow it to become part of Europe. It must carve out some sort of existence for itself - as has Finland - that is separated from Russia but not absolutely independent of it. If the government in Kiev persists in attempting to pull away completely - by joining NATO or the EU - tragedy will result. Russia is simply too big, too powerful, and too close. If absorption does not come by Putin, it will be by someone else, by some other Czar or president.
I suggest you remember a quotation attributed to a president of Mexico, “Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the US.”
Were I Ukrainian, this condition of national survival would gall me to the bottom of my soul. I would want to be part of Europe. I would want to mingle on equal terms with
other residents of the EU.
But I want Ukraine to survive. And it won't survive, if it attempts to extricate itself completely from Russia.
Let the RF have Crimea. Better to let it go, as a desperately ill man might be willing to lose a diseased foot that's poisoning his system - than to fight over what cannot be saved.
Remember, national existence is a generational obligation. Quibbling over constitutional niceties is not the road to survival in a dangerous neighborhood.
150 posted on 03/26/2014 7:19:32 AM PDT by quadrant (1o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies]

To: quadrant
Basically, Ukraine has two models from which to choose. It can choose the French model and end up with endless quarrels and considerable violence over constitutional arrangements; or Ukraine can choose the British model and make muddling through pragmatic decisions that occasionally leave constitutional details for historians and academic study.
Each choice has virtues. But please remember that the British model has remained unchanged - allowing for the Cromwellian interregnum - for centuries. While France has since 1789 endured two monarchies, two empires, and five republics. And remember that once a choice has been made, its difficult to reverse. So, think carefully before you insist on the neatness of an absolutely legal referendum.
151 posted on 03/26/2014 8:43:32 AM PDT by quadrant (1o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: FredZarguna

That story is straight from the pigs mouths and, as such, is not subject to being “demolished(TM)”...


152 posted on 03/26/2014 2:31:08 PM PDT by varmintman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: varmintman

Glad to see you agree that a Russian puppet is a pig. His boss, Vladimir Putin is also a pig. The claims have been proven to be nothing more than more Russian lies.


153 posted on 03/26/2014 3:46:07 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: quadrant
Polls

I said nothing about polls. What I did say was that last time the opinion of Crimeans was gauged in a referendum was 1991 and the result then was that they were 54% for independence from Russia (then represented by the Russian Sovier Federative Socialist Republic, RSFSR). 42% were against independence. The turnout was also the lowest in Crimea at 60%. That was the closest, but still a clear win for those favoring independence. Similarly, ethnic Russians favored independence at 55%. Ukrainian independence referendum, 1991.

if Ukraine fixates on Crimea, it will lose everything

What the Ukrainians do and on what they fixate is up to the Ukrainians. It is rather evident that the energy to fight for Crimea is not there; however it doesn't make the annexation right. The likely scenario is that Crimea will become like these other acquisitions of the Russian Federation: Abkhazia and Osetia, with an indeterminate status and underdeveloped economy. RF will lose all the prestige it struggled to accumulate for the past 20 years. The best for RF would be to leave Crimea voluntarily and set up another Crimea referendum with observers and with cooperation from Ukraine. That is likely to result in a legal annexation; and at the same time that will allow Ukraine to safeguard true sovereignty, including whichever alliances military or economic it wishes to join. But RF is not likely to have the wisdom to do that.

NATO membership for Ukraine is largely up to NATO. All Russia's neighbors have learned the lesson by now that if they want sovereignty they need to join NATO ass soon as possible.

Do not discard the possibility that RF will invade in the East, either after fomenting a civil war in Ukraine or not. The latest developments show that The Ukrainian Revolution has entered an uncertain phase. So Crimea may very well be a moot point for the coming couple of years.

154 posted on 03/26/2014 5:46:47 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: annalex
If Ukrainians want to remain Ukrainians - and not become unwilling citizens of the Russian Federation - they must let Crimea go. There is no other way.
155 posted on 03/27/2014 9:31:09 PM PDT by quadrant (1o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: quadrant
If Ukrainians want to remain Ukrainians - and not become unwilling citizens of the Russian Federation - they must let Crimea go. There is no other way.

This should have been agreed on in 1994...They should have know that Russia would never give up their claims on Crimea.

156 posted on 03/27/2014 9:33:47 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: quadrant; dfwgator

I think Ukraine has let it go. They want to build a nation state and don’t need an enclave that does not harmonize with them. The troubling part in all this is not that Russia got Crimea but that the Russian Federation did it in the worst possible way for itself, its citizens and its standing in the world.


157 posted on 03/28/2014 5:30:08 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Countries hold onto all sorts of illusions.
After 1871, France devoted its foreign and military policy to securing the return of Alsace-Lorraine; getting what Hitler said was “a worthless sandy strip of soil,” cost the French untold wealth and hundreds of thousands of lives.
Argentina has insisted on the return of the Falkland Islands, despite defeat in war and the repeatedly expressed desire of the residents to remain British.
Even today, we read of rumblings in Mexico contemplating the return of land lost to the US in 1848.
The only two countries I can think of that accepted the loss of territory with a degree of good sense have been Turkey and Germany. But such actions are rare.


158 posted on 03/28/2014 9:26:40 AM PDT by quadrant (1o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: annalex

Annexation of Crimea was inevitable.
The big question is Putin. Is he willing to stop now and allow his successors to continue the task of reassembling the Russian empire, which would be the wisest course of action?
Or will Putin - as did Hitler - push until he arrays all the nations of the world against him?
That is, does Putin know how to stop? Stopping is very difficult for leaders; only the really great ones such as Bismark know how to do it.
Its true that the RF has taken a hit, but hits such as Crimea are soft. The RF can recover from it. If Putin stops, within a year no one will remember the Crimea. Annexation will be seen as inevitable, though lamentable.
If Putin stops.


159 posted on 03/28/2014 9:45:54 AM PDT by quadrant (1o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: quadrant

“Reassembling the Russian Empire” today would mean subjugating a lot of sovereign nations, including, for example, Poland, the Balt republics and Finland. What was possible, and even desirable in some cases for the Tsar and the healthy Russian nation of before 1917 would not be possible for a KGB apparatchik leading, with mixed success, a weak and diminishing remnant of the Russian people. You are describing the absolute nightmare scenario.

Would he stop at Crimea? It primarily depends on the deterrence that NATO would be willing to provide. At this point he is poised to invade the eastern parts of Ukraine. Hopefully, that would go badly enough for him to lose appetite for more.


160 posted on 03/28/2014 6:16:16 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161-162 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson