Posted on 02/26/2014 6:50:47 PM PST by lbryce
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer vetoed a bill Wednesday that would have allowed businesses that asserted their religious beliefs the right to deny service to gay and lesbian customers.
Opinions have been sharply divided over the politically charged measure, with both sides ramping up pressure on Brewer after the state's Republican-led Legislature approved the bill last week.
Brewer said she made the decision she knew was right for Arizona.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
As a Catholic, I am forbidden from attending the wedding of any baptized Catholic who remarries without having the first marriage annulled to prevent the scandal of "endorsing" the remarriage.
That's why a Christian baker shouldn't bake a cake for a homosexual wedding.
Discrimination is the basis of all civilization. If people of a civilization do not discriminate against those that can not or will not abide by the standards, customs, and morals of said civilization it will invariably cease to exist. Discrimination is outlawed in Western Civilization because certain men seek to wreck Western Civilization and rule the world that comes after.
State laws requiring segregation of blacks from whites are another matter and are unconstitutional (14th Amendment). The feds have a Constitutional right to interfere with state laws that require segregation of blacks from whites.
However, the feds have no other Constitutional authority to interfere with any other form of discrimination on the state level and the feds have no Constitutional authority whatsoever to interfere with the God given right of individuals and businesses to exercise their freedom of discrimination (freedom to choose) as they see fit.
She just doesn't know it yet.
She has unleashed a firestorm against those who attempted to protect AZ small businesses against the gay mafia and their supporters.
There are fewer of us these days but we are still here.
I guess we are about to find out what it feels like to be persecuted for our faith.
I once thought that only happened in Communist and totalitarian regimes, Amerika joins that group.
“You, sir, are a steely eyed missile man.”, or in this case, a steely eyed poster man. :^)
>> That’s why a Christian baker shouldn’t bake a cake for a homosexual wedding.
No one should be forced to serve behavior he deems immoral. While religion provides a moral framing, it shouldn’t be required.
God is allowing this perversity to happen to test Christian resilience and faith. What are the repercussions to the church which is the first to refuse “marry” homosexuals? That event will determine the real test of faith.
Its still not discrimination to refuse to support and participate in an activity (gay wedding) that is against one’s long recognized and sincerely held religious beliefs. If one refused to make any kind of cake for a gay person that would be discrimination. You miss the entire point by thinking that is what we are discussing here. It’s being against gay marriage that is the issue...the issue is not being against gays.
You either need to wise up or get off this board.
She had choice. We conservatives better get with it and this isn’t even the top issue in the game but the left don’t play this bs. They push through and keep hitting the wall no matter how many they offend or how many times they lose. This strategy of bowing to leftist threats is emboldening these nasty worms of humanity. You don’t feed bullies. You hit em hard and you keep hitting them till they smile and want to be your buddy so that you wont hit em again. The problem is I don’t think many Christians really love America they just like feeling like they are good people and what better way to feel like good people than to spend an evening comforting yourself on how you couldn’t possibly do nutin cause the left are meanies and might hurt you. Go take a fn prozac if you are going to justify this unprincipled Gov and ride out the end of the world with your Jesus blinders on. Some of us are actually trying to change the game and it wont be through love especially not the bastardized corrupt version that ends up with US losing because we are afraid of what our evil opponents will try to do. They tried it with Scott Walker. When don’t they try it? They at least have the self respect to actually fight for what their corrupt infantile minds want.
Sorry but I’m fed up. These spit slime GOP are just disgusting.
You pretty much stated my thoughts as well.
Brewer is weak, this is more evidence.
Anyone can sit here and complain about the gay mafia, but by God, I’m not going to be silent in public any longer.
This idiocy has taken on a life of it’s own to the point of being surreal. I need reality back!
I’m so angry that she vetoed this!
The unfortunate thing is that even the law doesn’t guarantee a thing. We have liberal judges federal and state who are increasingly just disregarding the law. Its time red states start doing the same and push back. The union isn’t worth this crap and if it will not stand then we can build our own freedomland built on liberty and individual freedom.
Looks like I hit a nerve but I appreciate some of the replies in that they tried to explain what the legislation was specifically about. Unfortunately I was unable to raise the actual bill (which I should have tried harder to do so), and apparently misunderstood its basic intent.
Okay. That shows that I’m not God, only human.
However, we have a problem, Houston, and it still involves discrimination. The question is, “Is it deliberately hurtful discrimination or unintentional/situational discrimination (i.e. religious belief based, etc).”
I have no specific answer except to say the following:
I’m against gay marriage because I (from my upbringing and societal beliefs), feel that it is an attempt to undermine the basic purpose of marriage, which was to provide a stable foundation for the family to live in, and thus to help make society stable as a whole.
Forget divorce for the moment. From the time of Moses and the Hebrew exodus from Egypt (and maybe other earlier examples), tribes, groups, etc. moved in familial/tribal - extended family - units for safety, work efficiency, etc.
It has been a mainstay of humanity for thousands of years and today a stable family with a father/father figure and mother/mother figure (i.e. step-parents, for example), are needed more than ever. You can look at the disaster that has befallen the “black family” since the late 60’s/70’s. onward.
Where once a strong father helped rule the roost, so to speak, or in the absence of a male figure, often the grandmother or mother, you had some stability. The Black Churches also used to be pillars of community stability as well as often serving as surrogate “fathers” at times.
Today, you have the serious deterioration of the black family (and many white families) with the desertion of the father, and sometimes, the mother, or no father or mother by marriage.
That foundation leg of society, the family, has been hacked at for decades, just as the Left/Liberals have hacked away at other societal legs - morality in general, sexual morality specifically, honesty, self pride, achievement by one’s own efforts/merits, learning how to win and learning how to lose, substituting video games for books, “tweets” for actual writing, emasculated history because it featured “old white men” as the center of Western civilization/history, etc.
However, our society, often unseen, but in reality, has also been strenghtened as old prejudices have given way to more tolerance of people different than ourselves. The advance of the black Americans has been greatly helped by the destruction of Jim Crow laws (which, as I pointed out earlier, also applied in different forms to Jews, the Irish, the Chinese, Japanese, etc in earlier America).
WW2 brought together the races (as they say), to fight for one country, America, despite its warts and flaws. Blacks proved that they could fight (as Black Jack Pershing knew from WW1), be it the Tuskegee Airmen, the 269th (”From Harlem to the Rhine”), the Red Ball Express, the Indian Code-talkers of the Pacific, Ira Hayes on Iwo Jima (where my father-in-law fought), to Moslem American soldiers who helped tremendously in Iraq as witnessed first hand by my son’s unit.
A soldier is an American, not a black, or white, or Christian or Jew or Sikh, or Indian. The uniform is one color because it represents one country. I saw this in Vietnam.
As for ‘discrimination’ as the basis of all civilization, yes, if you want to phrase it that way. Different people have different customs, moraes, languages, physical features, etc. And if they are the dominant people in an area, they do look at others as “not of their own”. That doesn’t mean you have to discriminate against them if they are decent citizens or even visitors.
Look at Nigeria, where religious wars are raging, following by decades earlier of ethnic/tribal wars (Biafra, etc). In fact much of SubSharan Africa has been destroyed by tribal and religious wars, destroying the efforts of the British and French to create unified nations (done badly and arbitrarily, which made matters worse).
We don’t want that here, not after the Civil War and slavery, the rise of the KKK (who didn’t like blacks, Jews, Catholics and lots of other people), the American Firsters (some were just plain out bigots), and now the Black extremists of Stokely Carmichael to the Reparationists of Rev. Wright and Eric Holder, or the White Aryan Nation groups who often look to Hitler for their “final solution”.
We are in a new era of social development and old traditions are under extreme stress, while newer issues such as gay rights, immigrant rights (i.e. illegal immigrant rights), legalized marijuana (which I oppose on both health and safety grounds, except for medical use), and even polygamy, have arisen to test and even tear us apart.
The best thing gays could do, in conjunction with say, the bakers who don’t want to facilitate cakes for gay weddings, is to work out alternative sources of goods and services.
I’m sure that there are many bakeries who would not mind making a cake for a gay wedding, or a Moslem wedding, or even a Wiccan wedding (if they have such a thing).
While it may not be the perfect solution, it would defuse a lot of the tensions and misperceptions surrounding these issues, issues which the Obama regime is promoting and making fester in order to divide us. And it is working.
However, as I said, respect and tolerance is a two-way street. Both parties, or all parties, must agree to a mutual way of resolving these issues without destroying ourselves and our society.
Why do the job that the Left wants, which is to Balkanize this country along religious, ethnic, racial and marxist economic lines? Instead, we should be uniting against those extremists that Obama has put into power in the federal government, as well as some of the absolutely disruptive leftists now being elected at the state and local level. They love power, chaos and dissension.
I had two law teachers who had the worse jobs in the world. One was a Jewish attorney who was representing the Nazis in their bid for a march permit through the largely Jewish (and Holocaust survivor) area of Skokie, Illinois. He was a volunteer for the ACLU and hated the Nazis, but he taught us that the “law” had to be applied to all “equally” or the discrimination and restriction of basic constitutional rights for one, would later be applied to others, possibly including us, one day. He was right.
The other attorney was a white liberal who had to defend the Black Muslim murderers of a rival group, the Hannafi Muslims, whose members had been slaughtered in their house in Wash. D.C. He got death threats from all sides, but he was an attorney whose assigned job was to defend the accused.
He didn’t pick his clients, he didn’t like his clients, and he knew, based on the evidence, that they were guilty of mass murder of men, women and children. However, he was upholding the right to representation in court, regardless of who the client/defendant was.
He was preserving a basic constitutional right, for everyone in that court and for those to follow in the future, perhaps even you and me.
Often there are no easy choices in life so you do the best you can. By being united we stand a better chance of finding ways to either resolve “balkanizing” problems or at least to reduce their destructiveness as festering sores.
Let’s not fall into the trap of the Left. They want disunity, hate, discrimination, class warfare, intolerance, and a permanent underclass with “grievances” (economic, racial, religious, sexual, educational, etc).
They are getting it because we are fighting amongst ourselves instead of forming a firm unified front of decent Americans to stop, counter and destroy them.
And all this about a wedding cake. Aren’t there any other bakers in Arizona who could offer to make it for the guys and let it go at that?
This is the least of our worries. Pretty soon we may not be able to afford to buy a cake, of any kind, or the FDA will tell us what flavors or colors we can and cannot use in making one. That is the real danger to us, to society.
Time we faced reality and fought the real foe, not ourselves.
I think the bill was reprehensible but the important thing was it Constitutional legal?
If I were Governor Brewer I would have called the best Constitutional Scholars and determined if it was legal both Federally and on a State Basis. If the law was legal she should have signed it. At the same time she should have started a campaign to repeal the law that she signed.
The law of our individual republics, of our 50 states, is the law with the exception in which the Constitution of the USA defines its precedence above the law of the individual republic states. If these laws of precedence are not defined in the Constitution, the Federal Government has no legal jurisdiction nor legal power.
Not the first time they have beat Arizona into submission.
This makes me sick. Get rid of her.
She just flushed what remains of her political career down the toilet.
Exactly!!!
I keep hoping to see some push back. We do our part, and we elect politicians who speak the language of freedom, but then they get into office and cave at the first sign of criticism.
If only the politicians we elect would realize that they will be criticized regardless, and push back at the critics while continuing to do the right thing.
This dynamic has been on-going ever since I can remember. Caving to criticism has resulted in nothing but advancement of the leftist agenda against the will of the people. I'm seriously worried about our future.
“Why shouldn’t a Christian baker bake a cake for a homosexual wedding?”
Maybe because they don’t want to. Should they be forced to bake a cake for one of the those Muslim pedo-weddings?
One way to overcome this is to have an additional sign in the window that says, "This establishment donates a portion of its proceeds to the Family Research Council."
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