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To: redleghunter
redleghunter: "Then you ignore the entire context of Revelation 1."

Not at all, I take the context as presented here.

I agree that if you wish to believe Revelation 1:8 asserts that Jesus is God, that's one possible reading -- mistaken but understandable.
The more reasonable explanation -- in proper context -- reads

But I respect your reading, and would not condemn you as a "God Damned Heretic".
I ask of you the same forbearance and respect for those who, historically and today, have seen it differently.

2,931 posted on 01/10/2014 3:35:38 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK; GarySpFc
Daniel 7:

13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.(NKJV)

Revelation 1:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. 20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.(NKJV)

I bolded portions of Revelation 1 we have not discussed yet. I kind of figured your argument would include shifting subject objects in the earlier passage, so now included the "booth review" verses. Meaning there is no question in the bolded passages that the same Son of Man we see in Daniel 7:13 is discussed above as Jesus Christ Son of God. Key phrase of linkage is "Alpha and Omega" "the First and the Last" "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore." So there is no question "the First and the Last" is Jesus Christ. Which then brings us to:

Isaiah 44:

6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. 7 And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them. 8 Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’”(NKJV)

Upon further review from the 'booth', you lose a timeout.

2,938 posted on 01/10/2014 9:05:03 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: BroJoeK

I ask of you the same forbearance and respect for those who, historically and today, have seen it differently.

***Such a thing is too much to ask from God Himself, clad in human flesh. Jesus called false teachers like you ‘sons of satan’ but you would ask FReepers for their forbearance and respect. You ask more of FReepers than God expected of Himself. You are properly labelled a God damned heretic.


2,941 posted on 01/11/2014 11:44:32 AM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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