13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.(NKJV)
Revelation 1:
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. 20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.(NKJV)
I bolded portions of Revelation 1 we have not discussed yet. I kind of figured your argument would include shifting subject objects in the earlier passage, so now included the "booth review" verses. Meaning there is no question in the bolded passages that the same Son of Man we see in Daniel 7:13 is discussed above as Jesus Christ Son of God. Key phrase of linkage is "Alpha and Omega" "the First and the Last" "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore." So there is no question "the First and the Last" is Jesus Christ. Which then brings us to:
Isaiah 44:
6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. 7 And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them. 8 Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’”(NKJV)
Upon further review from the 'booth', you lose a timeout.
Up till now, I've shied away from trying to explain John 1, for the simple reason I do not feel qualified, and doubted if you'd agree with my explanation anyway -- so what is the point?
However, that explanation is essential to this one, so... here goes:
Summarizing: "God's Word" (Logos) is God's Plan.
"Word made flesh" means God's Plan actualized.
"In the Beginning was the Word" means: God planned for Jesus, from the beginning.
So, a reference to Jesus as "First and last", refers to his existence as God's Plan from beginning to end -- alpha to omega.
We know that the speaker in Revelation 1:18 is not God Himself because he says: "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore."
God cannot die, so that is Jesus talking.
How we get there, I grant you, is a fine line to draw, and many can't or won't see it.
Quoting from my Reference (see post #2,482), p174: "There is no doubt that for the early Christians Jesus had the value and reality of God.
This, however, does not mean they thought Jesus "was God".
They go on to say:
"We suggest that we should first see if John can be readily understood in terms of his otherwise very Jewish approach.
Why should we attempt to read John as though he were a student of the Jew Philo or of Gentile mystery religion?
Why should John be claimed as a supporter of the dogmatic conclusions of the much later church councils?
Should we not make sense of him from the Old Testament world of ideas?
'What we do know,' says a leading Bible scholar, 'is that John was steeped in the Old Testament Scriptures.
If we wish to understand the historical ancestry of John's Logos [word] concept as he himself understood it, we have to go back to those Scriptures.' "
Their conclusion is that earliest Christians saw Jesus as divinity, "the value and reality of God" , but not as Israel's God Himself.
In Jewish terms Jesus was God's Messiah/Christ, God's Logos-Word-Plan, God's intention from the Beginning.
That's why there is no explicitly Trinitarian language in the New Testament -- i.e., no words like "trinity", "God the Son", "God the Holy Spirit" or language that speaks of a "God-Head" of "three persons" & "one substance".
The modern term for Christians who try to see Jesus as his first followers did is "restorationists".
They have much in common with our Founders' Unitarianism, deism/theism and Freemason ideas.
They can be summarized by the term, "non-Trinitarian Christianity".
I believe they should be treated with forbearance and respect, especially on Free Republic's News/Activism threads.
redleghunter: "Upon further review from the 'booth', you lose a timeout."
Despite your infinitely inflated sense in self-importance, FRiend, you are not the "booth".
That would be God.
In this analogy: you redleghunter, are nothing but a sports team, playing to win the Big Game.
When two teams compete on a level playing-field, one plays to win, the other, if victory seems impossible, plays for respect as a worthy competitor.
I am here to ask for forbearance and respect for those, such as our Founders & today's "restorationists", who have historically expressed no interest or belief in the Trinitarian version of Christianity.