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To: BroJoeK; GarySpFc; metmom; boatbums; StoneHouse
I understand why you think you need to defend the founders. However, you place a "mountain" of founders as Unitarian or deist when it is little more than a "mole hill." The historical evidence is clear. I showed you that out of all signers of the Declaration of Independence there were two Unitarians and one confirmed deist and one maybe deist. That is 4 of 55 signers

Religious affiliations of our Founders

I also posted at least once, as did another poster, that the Enlightenment movement did not effect the American Colonies as much as it did Protestant and Catholic Europe. This was due to the First American Great Awakening which started in 1730 and lasted in full vigor into the next decade. Most historians credit the Great Awakening to fueling the American Revolution. So our American ideological origins strongly come from the Great Awakening.

Then our American history tells us the Second Great Awakening beginning when our nation was in infancy. Most scholars put the beginning of the Second Great Awakening starting in 1790, just after the ratification of our Constitution. The Second Great Awakening some attribute as a response to skepticism, deists and 'rational' Christianity. The First Great Awakening clearly shows the validity of the link I posted and the church affiliations of the Founders. The Second Great Awakening clearly shows the full rejection of the Elightenment movement as our young nation entered the 19th century.

The contention that George Washington did not write much about Jesus Christ is a weak pillar to lean on. We do have as historical record the prayer book GW used quite often. If you thumb through the morning and evening prayers, Jesus Christ is there, clearly. Each prayer is very orthodox, Biblically, where we pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus Christ. Exactly how Jesus taught us how to pray in the Gospels. Again here is an example of prayer from GW's prayer book; nothing deist or Unitarian about this prayer:

O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ my merciful and loving father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on thee for pardon and forgiveness of sins, but so coldly and carelessly, that my jjrgyers are become my sin and stand in need of pardon. I have heard thy holy word, but with such deadness of spirit that I have been an unprofitable and forgetful hearer, so that, O Lord, tho’ I have done thy work, yet it hath been so negligently that I may rather expect a curse than a blessing from thee. But, O God, who art rich in mercy and plenteous in redemption, mark not, I beseech thee, what I have done amiss; remember that I am but dust, and remit my transgressions, negligences & ignorances, and cover them all with the absolute obedience of thy dear Son, that those sacrifices which I have offered may be accepted by thee, in and for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered upon the cross for me; for his sake, ease me of the burden of my sins, and give me grace that by the call of the Gospel I may rise from the slumber of sin into the newness of life. Let me live according to those holy rules which thou hast this day prescribed in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object Jesus Christ the way, the truth and the life, bless, O Lord, all the people of this land, from the highest to the lowest, particularly those whom thou hast appointed to rule over us in church & state, continue thy goodness to me this night. These weak petitions I humbly implore thee to hear accept and ans. for the sake of thy Dear Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

2,716 posted on 01/02/2014 10:04:14 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: stonehouse01

Sorry pinged the wrong “stonehouse” in the last post. Ping for you.


2,717 posted on 01/02/2014 10:08:29 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter
redleghunter: "I understand why you think you need to defend the founders.
However, you place a "mountain" of founders as Unitarian or deist when it is little more than a "mole hill."
The historical evidence is clear.
I showed you that out of all signers of the Declaration of Independence there were two Unitarians and one confirmed deist and one maybe deist.
That is 4 of 55 signers "

Remember, on this thread, yours truly BroJoeK is called a "God Damned Heretic" because I point out that the New Testament contains no explicit Trinitarian language.
Nearly all our "top tier" Founders would also accept such an observation, including: Franklin, Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison & Hamilton.
That's because their Christianity was influenced by Enlightenment Age ideas of theism/deism, Unitarianism and/or Freemasonry.

I cite as proof of this thesis the fact that not only the New Testament, but also most of our Founders' writings, contain no explicitly Trinitarian language.

Yes, they were all believers, but they did not believe exactly as you do, and so I am here asking that their beliefs be treated with forbearance and respect, especially on Free Republic News/Activism threads.

2,743 posted on 01/03/2014 5:54:04 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: redleghunter
redleghunter: "The Second Great Awakening clearly shows the full rejection of the Elightenment movement as our young nation entered the 19th century."

Granted, however the historical evidence strongly suggests that virtually all the "top tier" Founders were to more-or-less degree influenced by Enlightenment ideas.
That many Americans later rejected such ideas does not negate what our Founders believed when they first declared independence and later wrote the Constitution.

redleghunter: "The contention that George Washington did not write much about Jesus Christ is a weak pillar to lean on.
We do have as historical record the prayer book GW used quite often."

But nobody is leaning on that pillar.
The question on the table here is not whether Washington believed in Jesus Christ -- he obviously did -- but whether Washington accepted the full-blown Trinitarian explanation of Jesus.
In historical fact, there's no evidence Washington did, nor did most other Founders, indeed the opposite.

Let us again clearly note a striking exception: Washington's close friend John Jay, our first Chief Justice.

My purpose here is to defend our Founders, in that interval between Awakenings, when Enlightenment ideas (i.e., Freedom of Religion) supported their efforts to declare independence and craft a new Constitution.

Will you grant such ideas forbearance and respect, here on Free Republic?

2,745 posted on 01/03/2014 6:11:11 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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