Replies

"Tell him there are other worlds to sing in. He'll know what I mean."

So very beautiful, dear brother in Christ! Thank you. May God ever bless you.

The problem you limn here points to the total inadequacy of the arguments presented by tacticalogic and BroJoeK on this thread.

Evidently they believe the Holy Scriptures reduce to mere texts, to be read at the level of a cookbook or an instruction manual or something like.

And so, BroJoeK is looking there for the explicit positive statement: Jesus is God. He does not find that statement in so many words — notwithstanding metmom's insightful list of citations on this very point. Therefore, BroJoeK evidently feels himself entitled to "skepticism" on this point.

The problem here is, it seems none of his main interlocutors on his thread — including spirited irish, Kevmo, YHAOS; me, et al., are in need of purely doctrinal comfort in support of the way they choose to live — as far as possible, in Christ, by His Grace. I imagine most Christians are not as "sola scriptura" in their approach to the biblical idea of human existence as BroJoeK seems to be.

Of course, I suspect that BroJoeK is a poseur, just here to stir up trouble and set off bombs....

BJK's main position appears to be this: All Christians are "wrong" in their belief, and one can use a selective culling of evidence from the Holy Scriptures to prove it. And not just positive evidence; but negative evidence as well — i.e., that the Bible doesn't explicitly say "Jesus is God," in so many words.

In so many words, BJK is telling us that Christianity is basically a "dead letter"; but to say this, he has to "forget" that the people who live in Faith find that letter — the Word — very much alive in their hearts, in their direct experience, in their acts....

The Holy Scriptures are communications of direct experiences, in symbolic form, of the Patriarchs, the Prophets; the Apostles, Saints, and Disciples of God, from First to Last.

Moses' encounter with the I AM started as direct experience — which then needed to be communicated in language. Experience precedes symbolization. Symbolization precedes communication....

The "vertical orientation" of human experience is something that "horizontal" linear types simply do not grasp, let alone understand.

Such folk prefer to build Second Realities — which do not have a snowball's chance in Hell of ever being realized in this World of divine making.

Dear MHGinTN, my very dear brother in Christ, thank you ever so much for "The Black Telephone." It is a simply magnificent short story.

The problem here is, it seems none of his main interlocutors on his thread — including spirited irish, Kevmo, YHAOS; me, et al., are in need of purely doctrinal comfort in support of the way they choose to live — as far as possible, in Christ, by His Grace.

No one here has a problem with their own beliefs. Some of us seem to have a problem with the other's beliefs and feel the need to correct them.

betty: The “vertical orientation” of human experience is something that “horizontal” linear types simply do not grasp, let alone understand.

Spirited: In the Last Battle, the last book of the Chronicles of Narnia, Lewis masterfully portrays the psychology of horizontal, linear types with the bitter, cynical, mocking black dwarves.

Though they claim to be for ‘dwarves’ (collectively)and no one and nothing else, individually, each embittered, contentious dwarf is for himself alone. They are blood and soil creatures, meaning that like Tolkien’s Gollum, their souls are inward-turned and materialized, thus for them, only the “down here below,” the linear and horizontal dimension of the senses is real. As their darkened hearts blind them to the vertical dimension, they mock and ridicule everything about it, particularly Aslan.

After they have passed through the “door” into eternity, they sit close together, elbows and knees touching, in a small circle—blind to each other as they really were in life-—quarreling, shouting, pinching, poking, cursing, blaming, and hitting each other for all eternity, in the darkness they preferred to the light when they were on the other side of the “door.”

And so, BroJoeK is looking there for the explicit positive statement: Jesus is God.
***John1:1, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.

John1:14 basically says that the Word was Jesus.

So, The Word Was God... The Word was Jesus. Jesus was God. Simple tautology.

Of course, heretics think there are “other ways” to “interpret” this passage. They also think the same thing of myriad other passages, so much so that they turn themselves into pretzels when they twist scripture and history around so much. It becomes an unrecognizable mishmash very quickly rather than a simple, straightforward statement from the God of the Universe to us.

In so many words, BJK is telling us that Christianity is basically a “dead letter”;
***Good insight. What a spiritually horrible, willful, and depressing position.

Of course, I suspect that BroJoeK is a poseur, just here to stir up trouble and set off bombs....
***And yet, this other thread was locked rather than to allow the destruction of such poseur arguments.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3104329/posts

Do you consider the denial of the deity of Christ to be a heresy for those who call themselves Christians?

betty boop: "The problem you limn here points to the total inadequacy of the arguments presented by tacticalogic and BroJoeK on this thread."

Arguments which you, Ms boop, have so far proved unable to summarize accurately.

betty boop: "And so, BroJoeK is looking there for the explicit positive statement: Jesus is God.
He does not find that statement in so many words — notwithstanding metmom's insightful list of citations on this very point.
Therefore, BroJoeK evidently feels himself entitled to "skepticism" on this point."

FRiend, I am not "skeptical" -- I am here to defend the religious views of (among others) our Freemason, Unitarian or deistically inclined Christian Founding Fathers.
Many of these beliefs are also found amongst nearly 50 million "restoration Christians" worldwide today.

I believe they deserve both fair hearings and respectful treatment here on Free Republic.

Do you agree?

betty boop: "I imagine most Christians are not as "sola scriptura" in their approach to the biblical idea of human existence as BroJoeK seems to be."

You are absolutely entitled to believe whatever you wish on these subjects.
I am only here to defend and seek some respect for beliefs of others (i.e., our Founders) who saw things differently.

betty boop: "Of course, I suspect that BroJoeK is a poseur, just here to stir up trouble and set off bombs...."

"Poser" for defending our Founding Fathers?
"Stir up trouble" by explaining their beliefs?
"Set off bombs" by linking them to around 50 million other non-Trinitarian Christians, world-wide?

Ms. boop, I ask again: what exactly is your problem?

betty boop: "BJK's main position appears to be this: All Christians are "wrong" in their belief, and one can use a selective culling of evidence from the Holy Scriptures to prove it.
And not just positive evidence; but negative evidence as well — i.e., that the Bible doesn't explicitly say "Jesus is God," in so many words."

In fact, I've several times posted the opposite -- i.e., quoting my post #2,143:

I'm not even saying that one interpretation is necessarily wrong or right.

Most important point here: that's why our Founding Fathers' first clause of their First Amendment says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

betty boop: "In so many words, BJK is telling us that Christianity is basically a "dead letter"; but to say this, he has to "forget" that the people who live in Faith find that letter — the Word — very much alive in their hearts, in their direct experience, in their acts...."

Of course, I've said nothing of the sort, shame on you, Ms boop.
I refer you to the "living Faith" of around 50 million "restoration Christians".
Do you have a problem with them?