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SF crash landing: Latest developments
CNN ^ | 7-6-13 | CNN Staff

Posted on 07/06/2013 2:17:14 PM PDT by smokingfrog

(CNN) - An Asiana Airlines' Boeing 777 crashed and burned Saturday while landing at San Francisco International Airport, sending up a large plume of dark smoke from the aircraft, which lost its tail and much of its roof.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: aircraft; airline; asiana; asiana214; crash; fl214; flight214; ntsb
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To: zipper

“What about an airspeed indicator — isn’t that an instrument?”
_____________________________________

Yes, but I do not think it would be an issue in this situation. It would be more critical in IFR conditions. That plane most likely has two airspeed indicators, as well as stall alarms.
I am sure there are some commercial airline pilots on FR that
would be far more qualified to comment on this crash.
I just do not know why he apparently touched down at the very end of the runway in VFR conditions.


101 posted on 07/06/2013 9:32:04 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: AlexW
"I just do not know why he apparently touched down at the very end of the runway in VFR conditions." - Alex w.

Two factors probably caused it: 1) It is very hard to visually judge distance to the water when flying over it... Depth perception is affected,; 2) According to what I was told, a NOTAM (notice to airmen) had been issued advising that the glide slope indicator on runway 28L was down. These factors would put the pilot at extreme disadvantage when trying to land at SFO. It would be even worse in a declared emergency when the pilot has other extreme factors with which to deal...

102 posted on 07/06/2013 9:44:49 PM PDT by Raven6 (Psalm 144:1 and Proverbs 22:3)
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To: Raven6

“the glide slope indicator on runway 28L was down”
___________________________________________

That certainly did not help his situation, but unless that runway is critically short, he should have been well past the threshold at touchdown. I guess in a plane that size, however, the runway that the pilot sees is quite far from where the wheels are.
Anyway, it is all over but the shouting, and we can speculate all day long. We just need to wait till the official ruling.
I was not aware of a declared emergency.


103 posted on 07/06/2013 10:03:41 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: NautiNurse

But how could that ... unless the tail cracked off before landing and struck the rocks, messing up anotherwise OK landing.


104 posted on 07/06/2013 10:27:42 PM PDT by txhurl ('The DOG ate my homework. That homework, too. ALL my homework. OK?' - POSHITUS)
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To: AlexW
After 30 years of Air Traffic Control experience, most as Tower Watch Supervisor in the USAF, this was a Pilot Error Crash.
The pilot came in too steep, with too much airspeed to bleed off, so he put it into a stall position to get rid of the airspeed.
But he stalled it out and got lucky that he belly landed it into the underrun, and the closed portion of the runway, before the landing threshold and leaving a portion of the tail in the bay.

Check out the last 5 minutes of this link at the bottom of the page
105 posted on 07/06/2013 10:55:12 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

“The pilot came in too steep, with too much airspeed to bleed off, so he put it into a stall position to get rid of the airspeed.”
___________________________________________
That is a good explanation. He obviously hit very short and very hard.
We should all give thanks that it was not a TOTAL disaster.


106 posted on 07/06/2013 11:06:12 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: SuziQ

You are correct. It was a low landing and the fireworks were the result of aluminum getting hot as it rubbed on the landing strip.


107 posted on 07/06/2013 11:11:10 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: SES1066

I believe you are correct. The idea of a bomb was a knee jerk reaction to reporter Anthony Castorani’s description. Someone speculated that it may have been a change in wind direction causing the wings to have a sudden loss of lift.


108 posted on 07/06/2013 11:14:46 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: AlexW
I agree.
But what I'd like to know is the compression rate and control instructions from the air traffic controllers starting with his descent from SF Center, through SF TRACON to the handoff to the tower.
Did the controllers keep him high in altitude and not allow enough of a descent rate due to traffic departing under him (the four-post operation of a busy TRACON)?
And did the controllers keep his speed up with their control instructions, until too short of a final when they handed him off to the tower, and not allow him time to bleed off the airspeed, due to the arrival rate of aircraft they were shoe-stringing down final at that time?
109 posted on 07/06/2013 11:36:15 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

“what I’d like to know is the compression rate and control instructions from the air traffic controllers”
_________________________________________

Surely, that is all on tape and will be analyzed.
It may well turn out to be a combination of factors
involving ATC and the pilot. ATC, however, is rarely, if ever, found negligent even when they are.


110 posted on 07/06/2013 11:54:45 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: AlexW
It will be analyzed, first from controller statements, and then from the radar playback and then from the voice tapes.
It usually is a "chain of events", and you said Excuse me, but I've got over 26 years experience with the USANG and USAF, and 5 years with the FAA as an air traffic controller, most of them as Control Tower Watch Supervisor/Senior Controller.
I disagree.
Controllers usually get what's called "A Contributing Factor", hence why I asked those questions.
It's not impossible for "Pilot Error" to be the ONLY factor, but it's rare.
111 posted on 07/07/2013 12:29:22 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: AlexW

On FNC earlier, they said Asianair was the second ranked airline in South Korea. Korean Air was number one there.”
*****************************
Stupid me. I spelled it like I heard some Brit on FNC said it! He is a good reporter, but tends to add “R” to words that end in “A”, like the damned Kennedys did/do (remember JFK saying “Cubar”?). ....Should be Asiana.


112 posted on 07/07/2013 1:05:14 AM PDT by octex
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To: octex

“Stupid me. I spelled it like I heard”
______________________________________

That’s no problem. Anyway, one can check the ratings here:
http://www.airlinequality.com/StarRanking/5star.htm
I think it is sad that no American carrier can rate more then three stars.


113 posted on 07/07/2013 2:06:22 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: AlexW
It may well turn out to be a combination of factors involving ATC and the pilot.

As one who is intimately familiar with the Northeast blackout of 2003, I would guess that this is the most likely situation. In that situation, it was several factors that put into play the events that put the lights out for so many millions of people.

Most of the time, there are overlaps in the precautions (layers of protection if you will) taken to prevent any one error from causing a disaster.

114 posted on 07/07/2013 2:46:19 AM PDT by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: meyer

Well, fault will be argued till the cows come home.
At this point it is silly to arm chair debate it.
We should all give thanks that it was not much more serious.
Usually, all we hear is “no survivors”.
By the way, I do not remember a 2003 blackout. I was probably out of the country. I do, however, remember the big blackout of all of the northeast in the early? sixties.
I remember my father was in NYC on business that night.


115 posted on 07/07/2013 3:06:10 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: AlexW

Northeast Blackout report, for your reading (dis)pleasure:

http://www.nerc.com/docs/docs/blackout/NERC_Final_Blackout_Report_07_13_04.pdf


116 posted on 07/07/2013 3:23:59 AM PDT by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: meyer

“Northeast Blackout report, for your reading (dis)pleasure:”
_________________________________________________

Thanks, but it is a bit more then I want to wade through, since it did not affect me while in Europe, haha.
As with the 60s blackout, there was obviously a chain reaction with “so called” safety switches not working.
As we say, S*** happens. All of the precautions in the world will not stop it from happening.
I might add, while in Slovakia, power failures were mostly unheard of. Most all electrical distribution is under ground. I very rarely saw a power line.
In five years there I remember only one blackout, due to a backhoe digging in the wrong location.


117 posted on 07/07/2013 3:43:54 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: centurion316

A buddy was freight manager for JAL at that time. He related the story along with the “window seat” comment.


118 posted on 07/07/2013 6:14:32 AM PDT by Mouton (108th MI Group.....68-71)
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To: AlexW

Yes... Pilot declared emergency regarding indication of fire in the cargo hold. That is why C&R trucks were on scene so quickly - they were waiting for aircraft to land so that the fire could be extinguished...


119 posted on 07/07/2013 7:05:23 AM PDT by Raven6 (Psalm 144:1 and Proverbs 22:3)
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