Posted on 06/10/2013 8:05:42 PM PDT by chessplayer
Daniel Ellsberg, whose leak of the so-called Pentagon Papers to The New York Times in 1971 exposed the secret history of the war in Vietnam, thinks Edward Snowden's leak of the National Security Agency's surveillance programs was more important than his.
"In my estimation, there has not been in American history a more important leak than Edward Snowden's release of NSA material, and that definitely includes the Pentagon Papers 40 years ago," Ellsberg wrote in an op-ed published by the Guardian on Monday. "Snowden's whistleblowing gives us the possibility to roll back a key part of what has amounted to an 'executive coup' against the U.S. constitution."
Ellsberg added on CNN Sunday night that “it can’t be overestimated to this democracy. It gives us a chance, I think, from drawing back from the total surveillance state that we could say we’re in process of becoming, I’m afraid we have become.
Government claims it has a court warrant under Fisa – but that unconstitutionally sweeping warrant is from a secret court, shielded from effective oversight, almost totally deferential to executive requests. As Russell Tice, a former National Security Agency analyst, put it: "It is a kangaroo court with a rubber stamp."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC:
What is so hard for you with this one?
You understand that every form of electronic communication of the ENTIRE country was getting intercepted, right?
Let me understand you:
You think the FRAMERS OF THE US CONSTITUTION would approve of that, right...?
I have ZERO tattoos and I’ve NEVER smoked pot but the fact that I’d do as Snowden did makes me a HIPPY?
THIS IS SO WEIRD...!
I was also somewhat ambivalent, but am coming down on the hero side to the extent that Snowden revealed a program that our own government is operating that goes against protections our Constitution is supposed to assure for every single person in the country. If there’s been treason, it’s been at a far higher level than Snowden. And, I fear, across all 3 branches of government.
I would like to see the Utah facility turned into a maximum security prison and throw every last SOB who’s involved in this, actively or passively, into that prison for the rest of his or her natural life. All in solitary with no more than an hour a day of daylight and fresh air. No communication whatsoever with other prisoners or the outside world.
That isn’t to say necessarily that Snowden is without fault. And I really don’t want it to be so much about him as what he did, and how that benefits the American people vs. the government that’s out of control. How does this differ from any other totalitarian country where people are threatened to give up information on their friends and family members? Except now, this govt doesn’t need people to tell them; they just eavesdrop on everybody to get what they want.
But God forbid they should profile.
“Snowden’s GF”
Prove it.
It’s simple. He didn’t disclose identities or give data to our enemies, he disclosed illegal unconstitutional acts by the government.
Hero or traitor are not the only two terms that can be used to describe him.
EDINVA Your post is more convincing than any that I have read. Although the Glenn Beck vs Karl Rove comment weighed heavy also.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/07/privacy-wyden-clapper-nsa-video
‘Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?’
Apparently not even NSA chief was aware of what was being done????
We are taught not to follow illegal orders in basic training, or at least we were in 1978.
See what I mean! There was no order for comcentration camp victime, he isnot a soldier, the only order was his swearing to not reveal secrets!
I haven’t decided what I think of him but you certainly haven’t comtributed anything to the discussion other than a bullying statement of your opinion and a disgusting judgement of a person about whom you know nothing.
He may be a hero or he may ve a grandiose little bastard,,,I don’t know.
great point. Does the end justify his means?
If you are not outraged that every single one of your phone calls, text messages, internet posts, internet purchases, Facebook comments, and credit card transactions have been gathered into a database controlled by a secret government organization with no congressional or judicial oversight for the last 4 to 8 years, then you are not a Constitutionalist. You are one of those who would sacrifice all your liberty in hopes of getting some temporary security.
The potential for evil in that database is unprecedented. the Nazis and the KGB could only dream of having this much information on their subjects.
I didn't sign on to being spied upon by some secret national police force.
This guy is a true American Hero. He gave up all of his liberty to protect yours. He exposed an illegal operation that has been setting you up to have all your liberties taken away. Perhaps there is some hope that this program can be stopped. It might be too late. The wheels are in motion and the train is going 100 miles per hour.
yes, but he is not a soldier. I think the scandal invilves the fisa court and whoever has oversight over NSA.
It’s ok to think about it for a few days, I’m sure.
Thanks. I didn’t see that Beck/Rove brouhaha. (helps not to have cable). But I’ve certainly given this a lot of thought, lived through any number of leaks. This one seems the most significant in my lifetime, and just reminds me too much of all the Cold War stories we heard from behind the Iron Curtain. Except it’s happening in the good ole USA. And the technology is far more powerful. We should all be very afraid.
Consider this: he took an oath to defend the Constitution.
Now ask yourself, did he do so, or not?
We have the answer as to whether the abuse stretches over the last 4 or the last 8 years.
As convincingly shown by the chart in post #23 at the below link, the abuse began exactly 4 years ago.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3028286/posts?page=23#23
Ehh...I'll bite:
When a man tells the whole country, "Hey your own gummint intercepts and stores ALL your electronic communication..." how exactly would he be BETRAYING that country...?
Can you tell me that?
If I camp outside your house in a white van intercepting all your calls, I think we both agree that's usually not so nice. Kay. But when I then TELL YOU that I'm doing that, does my telling you constitute an ADDITIONAL act of BETRAYAL..?
Wouldn't you instead say that my act of TELLING you of past intercept draws some limiting line against aspects of FUTURE intercept..?
I have to admit that I was feeling that his guy was an American hero but I really wanted to have a spirited debate to see how others felt about this. I am glad that so many have recognized the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land and must be followed. When we take our eyes off of it we start to get wobbly legs and doubt what we know is right. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Even the negative ones, I have broad shoulders.
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