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To: PeaRidge; Bubba Ho-Tep
PeaRidge post #383: "The official act to which BroJoe was referring is listed in the records of the Confederate government as An Act Recognizing The Existence of War Between the United States and the Confederate States, and Concerning Letters of Marque, Prizes and Prize Goods."

Combined with various other war-making acts of the Confederate Congress, there is no practical, legal or logical distinction to be drawn between Confederate actions and any other formal Declaration of War.

And here's the important point to remember: the United States made no invasions, assaults or attacks on the Confederacy -- no Confederate soldiers were killed in battle with any United States military force -- until after the Confederacy first started, then formally declaration of war on the United States, on May 6, 1861.

PeaRidge: "All sorts of writers and historians like to point to this simple act to support their contention that the South was the provocateur and that Lincoln was simply assuming a defensive role."

In fact, as you say: "...the South was the provocateur and that Lincoln was simply assuming a defensive role."

For examples:

The simple fact is: in every step along the path from peace in 1860 to war in 1861, secessionists provoked and lead the way, while the Union slowly, reluctantly followed.

PeaRidge: "Of course we here all know that the courts found that the war was begun in Lincoln's office on April 17, 1861"

Regardless of later court interpretation, Lincoln committed no physical act of war on April 17, or on any other date before the Confederacy began war on April 11, and officially declared war on May 6, 1861.

So there was no war until the Confederacy made it happen.

412 posted on 04/16/2013 5:19:56 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK
You said: “Combined with various other war-making acts of the Confederate Congress, there is no practical, legal or logical distinction to be drawn between Confederate actions and any other formal Declaration of War.”

Except that you cannot produce a Declaration of War by the Confederate Congress.

You said: “So there was no war until the Confederacy made it happen.”

Wrong. The U.S. Supreme Court in 79 U.S. 12 Wall. 700 (1870) fixed the beginning on April 19th, 1861.

Here is the ruling: “The proclamation of intended blockade by the President may therefore be assumed as marking the first of these dates, and the proclamation that the war had closed as marking the second. But the war did not begin or close at the same time in all the states. There were two proclamations of intended blockade: the first of the 19th of April, 1861, [Footnote 7] embracing the States of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas; the second of the 27th of April, 1861,

That date was also accepted by Jefferson Davis, President, of the Confederacy, the states of Virginia, North Carolina, and Tennessee.

You may continue to argue this point, but the actual Supreme Court decision will be given back to you from now on.

454 posted on 04/18/2013 1:55:57 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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