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To: BroJoeK
You said: “Combined with various other war-making acts of the Confederate Congress, there is no practical, legal or logical distinction to be drawn between Confederate actions and any other formal Declaration of War.”

Except that you cannot produce a Declaration of War by the Confederate Congress.

You said: “So there was no war until the Confederacy made it happen.”

Wrong. The U.S. Supreme Court in 79 U.S. 12 Wall. 700 (1870) fixed the beginning on April 19th, 1861.

Here is the ruling: “The proclamation of intended blockade by the President may therefore be assumed as marking the first of these dates, and the proclamation that the war had closed as marking the second. But the war did not begin or close at the same time in all the states. There were two proclamations of intended blockade: the first of the 19th of April, 1861, [Footnote 7] embracing the States of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas; the second of the 27th of April, 1861,

That date was also accepted by Jefferson Davis, President, of the Confederacy, the states of Virginia, North Carolina, and Tennessee.

You may continue to argue this point, but the actual Supreme Court decision will be given back to you from now on.

454 posted on 04/18/2013 1:55:57 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge; x; Sherman Logan; Bubba Ho-Tep; rockrr; donmeaker
PeaRidge: "The U.S. Supreme Court in 79 U.S. 12 Wall. 700 (1870) fixed the beginning on April 19th, 1861."

Here is that actual case, from 1871.

Naturally, you leave out the context, which doesn't suit your argument, along with significant quotes which tell us what that case was all about.

In 1871 the Supreme Court was asked to rule -- for purposes of law suits determined by statutes of limitations -- what dates should be used for beginning and end of the war.
Their ruling was clear common sense:

In other words, Supremes said it would be "difficult, if not impossible" to say which hostile acts by Confederates were insurgency, which were "domestic violence", which insurrection, which rebellion and which outright war.

But that's not what the Supremes were asked to rule on.
Instead, they were asked, for purposes of legal suits, to rule: which action by the Federal Government could be classified as an act of war?
So they ruled that Lincoln's document of April 19, proclaiming blockade would serve that purpose.

In other words: for legal purposes they have to go by some legal document, and so they chose the blockade announcement.

But in actual fact, Lincoln's blockade proclamation was simply that: a document.
That document did not kill anyone on April 19, or for months afterward.
Indeed, it's purpose was to achieve victory with an absolute minimum loss of life.

Further, we should note for this discussion how poorly worded -- and likely poorly thought out -- the Supremes' decision is.
To see how poorly worded, I would challenge anyone to study the Supreme's sentence above, and tell us what those last three words, "must be taken" refer to.
As near as I can tell, they are simply words "left over" after some modification or rewrite of a previous version.
It tells me their thinking and decision were all very narrowly based.
They did not intend for April 19, 1861 to serve for any purpose other than statutes of limitations.

In actual historical fact, the indisputable first genuine "act of war" -- as opposed to lesser acts of rebellion, insurrection, "domestic violence", etc. -- was the Confederacy's military assault of Fort Sumter, beginning April 12, 1861.

The Confederacy's next major act of war, on April 17, was to solicit applications for letters of marque against Union shipping.
This, like Lincoln's blockade proclamation on April 19, was a mere document -- it killed nobody on that date.
But Jefferson Davis' document was every bit as much an "act of war" as was Lincoln's blockade proclamation two days later.

The bottom line remains: Secessionists committed many acts of rebellion, insurrection and "domestic violence" before escalating to their first major act of war against Fort Sumter, April 12.
After Fort Sumter Confederates' increased their pace to war, increases slowly matched by Union actions.

The Union's first major physical acts of war did not happen until after Virginia voters confirmed it's secession, on May 23, 1861.

456 posted on 04/18/2013 7:54:28 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: PeaRidge
PeaRidge: "...you cannot produce a Declaration of War by the Confederate Congress."

Only a Prince of DeNile could refuse to accept that the Confederate act of May 6, 1861 is a declaration -- "recognition" -- of war, for all intents and purposes.

458 posted on 04/19/2013 4:14:10 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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