Posted on 03/08/2013 9:01:51 PM PST by daniel1212
so, faith alone is not enough?
>>>>>>It doesn’t matter how you live your life. At the last minute, just ask for the sacraments and voila`, you’re good to go.>>>>>
Meaning that what one does in life matters regarding one’s salvation?
Just trying to understand the protestant view.
Leni
There is no purgatory. Suffering to pay for sins is unscriptural. Only the shedding of blood cleanses us from sin and where there is forgiveness, there remains no penalty for sin.(Hebrews)
Forgiveness is forgiveness. A clean slate with sins remembered no more. The penalty has been paid and the debt is cancelled.
So, yes, if Chavez had a real, genuine, honest to goodness change of heart and repented and confessed faith in Christ to save him, he was saved, as the thief on the cross was.
I will not be surprised in the least to not see Chavez in heaven.
He only claims to be Christian when he remembers and doesn’t slip up and admit to being muslim.
It may or may not.
If he’s asking for sacraments for fire insurance, then God knows his motivation, and likely it’s meaningless.
Of course.
What this amounts to is Catholics promoting the very easy believism that Protestants are accused of promoting.
There are some important distinctions. Catholics object to those Protestants who believe that since they are "saved," they can sin with impunity. I realize that this is a small percentage of Protestants, but they do exist.
The possibility of last-minute repentance is proven by the Good Thief.
But the decision to lead a life of sin, with the intention of repenting at the moment of death, is obviously a very risky gamble. It's possible to die without the opportunity to repent. But the more typical danger is that a person who is habituated to sin is unlikely to repent with true sorrow, at the moment of death, in which case he will be lost.
What I said was this: What this amounts to is Catholics promoting the very easy believism that Protestants are accused of promoting. It doesn’t matter how you live your life. At the last minute, just ask for the sacraments and voila`, you’re good to go.
No, it doesn't matter how you live your life. Once you accept Jesus and thereby His atonement for your sins, you are FORGIVEN. Clean slate. All that past is washed away and forgotten by God.
As far as sinning after salvation, it does not cost you your salvation, as that is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, but God will not let it go. There WILL be consequences for sin and God WILL discipline His children for it.
However, Catholicism does preach it's own *easy believism which it hypocritically condemns in others.
But according to Catholics, it's OK when it's Catholic easy believism, but not OK when it's non-Catholic easy believism.
No different from Catholics who sin with impunity and figure they'll just be putting in a little extra time in purgatory.
So if you recognize that it is a small percentage, why do Catholics keep harping on it?
Especially when virtually every non-Catholic here says that if someone has that attitude, they are more likely than not, not a Christian.
The other shame is that Boston has been afflicted with archbishop after archbishop who have not been up to the task. The last really great one was Cardinal "Gangplank Bill" O'Connell (archbishop from 1907 to 1944.
He was succeeded by Richard Cardinal Cushing (archbishop from 1944-1970) who apparently played a role in the quite scandalous annulment of the marriage of Jacqueline Kennedy's sister Lee Radziwell at a time when annulments were appropriately rare. Cushing also had a role in seeing to it that Mary Jo Kopechne's remains were gotten out of Massachusetts lest there be any embarrassment to Ted the Swimmer in the event that an autopsy might reveal the exact details of her death (apparently she lived for hours while Teddy dithered over the consequences to his political career) or other possible embarrassments.
Humberto Cardinal Madeiros came next and he was such a confirmed liberal that he refused entry of transfer students from the public schools (i,e,, PS 666) during the busing controversy, establishing his apparent view that forcible court-ordered desegration and busing schemes took precedence over the spiritual well-being of the souls of the children denied admission and their actual education in all subjects other than gang-banging and drug dealing.
Bernard Cardinal Law came next (1984-2002). Enough said.
Law was succeeded by Sean Cardinal O'Malley, another apparent chum of Clan Kennedy.
I take it you are not actually suggesting that Benedict XVI actually approved of the late apostate buffoon of Hyannis Port.
I suspect that you were not hoping for the Catholic bishops in the choir to say: Hell, Yes! to Obozocare.
Ok; so what.
Is that enough to KNOW that...
He isn’t going to heaven...?
I sure hope Cardinal Urosa is not a leading candidate to be the next pope.
The swastika was a near universal art form with deep roots in India, China, Japan, Finland, Ireland, Sweden and even among the tribes of Native Americans, long before it was associated with Hitler's Nazi Party. That the symbol appeared in artwork in a convent decades earlier than the existence of the Nazi movement, means nothing.
<<<<<However, Catholicism does preach it’s own *easy believism which it hypocritically condemns in others.<<<<<
No, it does not. Chavez did in fact profess belief/faith. He was a member of the Church and yet a sinner who lived his faith imperfectly. I am assuming that when he asked for the Sacraments, confession/reconciliation/absolution was given. That would mean that he would have to examine his conscience, confess his sins and ask forgiveness.
Was the Church wrong to offer prayer for his soul after he had done this?
The Church has lived up to the exact teaching that she holds as true. That faith in Jesus should be lived in the works one does, as the Bible tells us it is useful to equip believers for the good work that God has prepared for them to do.
For any way in which Chavez failed in that, he would need to repent of those sins, especially if they were of the mortal kind. That would mean an action on his part and not the mere professing of faith in Jesus.
There is always time to return to God when one is alive even if that is at the last moment of one’s life which unfortunately is what it takes for some.
No hypocrisy there.
Individual Catholics may adopt this attitude, but these individuals are jeopardizing their salvation, and this attitude is condemned by the Church.
So if you recognize that it is a small percentage, why do Catholics keep harping on it?
We don't see fellow Protestants condemning this attitude. Far more often we observe Protestants condemning Catholic teaching regarding salvation.
Also, under the rubric of Sola Scriptura, what earthly power can claim authority to condemn the "once saved, always saved" interpretation of Scripture?
Especially when virtually every non-Catholic here says that if someone has that attitude, they are more likely than not, not a Christian.
That hasn't been my experience.
I tell you what, IF he's there, I'll take him and Shawn Pen to dinner and a movie and when I drop them off at their lover boy mansion and then I'll kiss both of them on the lips.
That's my idea of purgatory.
I'm a Hetero guy.
As well as this:
Genesis 6:3Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
Then it got shortened:
Psalm 90:10
The length of our days is seventy years--or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.
It appears that Hugo lost his 'strength'...
Luke
38 There was a written notice above him, which read: this is the king of the jews.
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
So? Are you Jesus?
It doesn't matter what *his* faith was. God doesn't reward because of sincerity, even if you're wrong.
He flat out rejected the Catholic church and demonstrated no fruit that would lead anyone to even suspect he was a genuine believer.
He made no profession of faith in Christ for his salvation as far as I know, and even if he did, it had no credibility because of his life.
Only God knows if he was saved, but it can be a pretty good bet he wasn't because he showed no fruit of that.
That said, the point of the article was that the Catholic church gave him a Catholic funeral, thus giving its stamp of approval to him, just like it did for Kennedy.
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