Tempers Flare: Residents Complain Government Is Too Slow Distributing Food And Supplies

SHTF Plan ^ | 11-1-2012 | Mac Slavo

[blam]

Tempers Flare: Residents Complain Government Is Too Slow Distributing Food And Supplies

Mac Slavo
October 31st, 2012

Hurricane Sandy made landfall just 36 hours ago and already we’ve received reports of looting in hard-hit areas with some people brazenly taking to Twitter to post pictures of their new found wealth.

Ahead of the storm panic buying left grocery and hardware store shelves empty as concerned residents stocked up on food, water, batteries, flashlights, and generators.

With the run on supplies over the weekend, tens of thousands of people were inevitably left without essential survival items due to shortages across the region, and now they are demanding action from government officials.

Officials in the city of Hoboken, N.J., are defending their response to severe flooding from superstorm Sandy.

Public Safety director Jon Tooke says at least 25 percent of the city on the Hudson River across from Manhattan remains under water. He estimates at least 20,000 people are stranded and says most are being encouraged to shelter in place until floodwaters recede.

Tempers flared Wednesday morning outside City Hall as some residents complained the city was slow to get food and other supplies out to the stranded.

Tooke says emergency personnel have been working 24/7. He says the “scope of this situation is enormous.”

Without any way to heat their homes due to power outages, no food in their pantries and water supplies potentially tainted with polluted flood waters, those who failed to prepare are now at the mercy of the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s crisis safety net.

But, as FEMA has advised in its emergency preparedness guidelines, despite millions of dollars in supplies having been purchased by the Federal government, if emergency responders and the transportation infrastructure is overwhelmed, help may not be coming for days or weeks.

While damage from Hurricane Sandy may not be as widespread or severe as earlier reports suggested it could be, what should be crystal clear is that any serious long-term emergency would be horrific for the non-prepper.

In New Jersey some 20,000 residents are affected and already there are not enough supplies to go around and sanity is rapidly destabilizing.

The government simply does not have the manpower to deal with an emergency requiring the delivery of food and water to hundreds of thousands of people. The saving grace for the east coast is that the damage was not as bad as it could have been, and residents were made aware of the coming storm days in advance, giving them ample time to stock up or evacuate.

Imagine the effects of an unforeseen, more widespread disaster such as coordinated dirty-bomb terror attacks, a natural disaster requiring permanent mass evacuations of entire cities, destruction of the national power grid, or the collapse of the currency systems necessary for the global exchange of key commodities.

Even those who set aside supplies for such disasters would be hard-pressed to survive; never mind those who have less than three days of food in their pantries.

[wrench]

Sorry to hear of the damaged property. But poor planning does figure into some of the damage.

Trees are pretty, but they require regular care. Mature trees close to homes need to beer topped on a regular basis to help prevent property damage from storms (not just hurricanes, any thunderstorm can bring one down).

Allowing 80’ trees close to one’s home or garage is like suspending several tons of concrete over the structure with a cotton rope. Given time, it WILL fall down.

This storm is not unlike any strong storm hitting a densely populated area. You can pull up photos from any city or town and see blocked roads, downed trees and powerlines.

[MrB]

There are already PSAs out there on preparedness.
That’s a good start, but I think they are lacking in urgency.

But, the demographic we’re talking about here inherently are poor planners, otherwise they wouldn’t be poor in the first place.

[Wallace T.]

If Romney wins, Christie's Presidential ambitions are deferred until 2020. Unless Romney is swamped by another major economic downturn or a large scale war overseas, he will get the Republican Presidential nomination in 2016. Even intraparty challenges against weak incumbents (Ford in 1976; Carter in 1980) are unsuccessful. If Romney is as successful in tackling a distressed economy as Reagan was in defeating the Soviets, he will be competing with a presumably healthier Paul Ryan for the Presidential nomination in 2020. Standing Vice Presidents are strongly favored to win their party's Presidential nomination, going back to Nixon in 1960 and continuing to Gore in 2000. Cheney chose not to run in 2008 and I would guess that, even if Obama wins a second term, Biden will decline to run in 2016.

Given a Romney win and a successful Presidency on his part, Christie and all the other GOP wannabes are basically out of luck. Is he trying to somehow sabotage Romney? I don't know. Certainly, Bloomberg and Cuomo acted more responsibly in this matter.

[GSWarrior]

This always happens even in the most efficient relief operations. You will always be able to find someone who is upset about something.

[Black Agnes]

In some neighborhoods up there there IS no place to park your car that isn’t under/near a tree. parking is at a premium. If you’ve never lived there you can’t really comprehend the ‘premium’ nature of parking. And some towns have ‘zoned’ parking. If you don’t have the right sticker they WILL tow you. Mercilessly. Within hours. Ask me how I know this?

Remember, only zone A was to be evacuated. The surge reached far into zone B in many places. It was a full 3 ft higher than forecast. That’s a lot of real estate. In these apartments there isn’t room for storing any significant preps either.

The best plan for those in zone A and B would have been to evac to western PA or upstate NY. However, that’s cost prohibitive to some. Not to mention if the storm’s a bust you’re still expected to be at work the next day. If you’re hourly and low on the totem pole and aren’t there at 7am you’ll likely be fired.

This has been an adventure wrt normalcy bias for a lot of people up there. There WILL be more preppers up there after this. I promise.

However, there is a limited ability to truly prep in that kind of urban density and reliance on public things like water. You are NOT allowed to have a well on your property. And if everyone’s cooking with ‘fire’, the chances of tragedy in that sort of density exponentiate. I suspect the breezy point fire happened when the power first went out. And someone lit a candle. That then got blown over when a window shattered. Mrs. O’Leary is still with us.

And I’m unsure what you’re suggesting people in high rise apartments build a fire with? or in? Fireplaces are VERY premium up there. Very. I can’t remember any apartments or condos up there that HAD fireplaces. IIRC some very very ritzy places on the upper east side had them. And, on the 10ft floor of a building in a 600sq foot apartment where would you store wood even IF you had a fireplace? Most of these apartments/condos don’t even have balconies. And gas grills are verboten due to fire regulations.

So, in the theoretical average 600-700sq ft apartment on say the 4th floor with no fireplace. Where, exactly, is he to build a fire to keep warm?

In much of the NYC area there IS no way to properly prep. Not entirely. You aren’t permitted your own water supply. If the one you use lacks pressure you’re SOL. If it’s ‘boil water’ time you’re SOL if there’s no way to do that. Some townships have water that’s unsafe even WITH boiling. Think about that for a minute. Then there’s the problem of flushing the potties. If they were planning ahead and filled up their tubs that’ll last a week of flushing approximately. Assuming their sewage systems work. In some townships that’s getting tricky even now. Soon they won’t even be able to flush the potties.

Many of them don’t have a car at all. Most on Manhattan do not. Cars are for the wealthy. It cost me $200/m just to PARK my car. ten years ago. In NJ. It’s probably triple that or more in Manhattan. It’s a matter of where to put them. Only the ‘wealthy’ apartment buildings (ie, high rent/cost ones) have parking for their tenants. And they still charge extra for that space.

now, could they have evaced? Probably. But where? That’s costly. How do you do that without a car? Well, you could take public transportation. What if you have a pet? How do you take your preps if you do have them? And where in PA/upstate NY do you PUT 2-3M people on a whim? That’s another logistical nightmare.

This will be Obamas Katrina. Writ large. It’s a slow motion disaster right now. And there’s NO WAY the fedgov can do what it needs to in the time things need to happen. It WILL get ugly before it’s over with...

This isn’t, necessarily, a condition of lack of prepness. It’s a function of urban density. Read some of Matt Bracken’s writings. Even IF you’re 100% prepped to the extent you CAN be in one of these areas, there will STILL be big gaping holes in your preparedness scenario due to forced reliance on either water supplies or inability to site something as simple as a gennie. Picture that 600sq ft apartment on the 4th floor. How do you site a gennie in that? Well, you can. If you like asphyxiation due to products of combustion of hydrocarbons...

The BEST way to prep for this in a dense urban area is to NOT BE THERE AT ALL. Even IF you have a bugout camp somewhere you still have to get there. What if you or a loved one is in the hospital when the disaster strikes? What if you’re divorced, your ex has custody of the kids and refuses to evac or prep? It’s not as simple as ‘those people didn’t do ‘X’, therefore they get what they deserve and they’re stupid’.

Although there ARE some stupid people involved. As everywhere.

[dfwgator]

The threads that keep civilization going in NYC are very thin indeed, and the vast majority of its’ inhabitants are frightfully unaware of this.

[Black Agnes]

The person living in a 600sq foot apartment on the 4th floor can’t plant veggies. And if the window of the apartment above you gets blown in your preps stored in the top of a closet can still get ruined with water. Or if their potty stops up and overflows. Or if the water line that contains the radiator system for the building gets ruptured. Or if the apartment below you lights a candle in the darkness. That gets turned over...and burns your stuff too!

Even if you’re in suburbia if a neighbors tree falls on YOUR house all your prepping is for naught in a SHTF scenario.

Urban density !== prep-ability. You have to prep with what you will need in mind. Along with all the stupid stuff the people who live within 50ft of you might do. And that’s an exponential thing in the midst of a ‘problem’.

But, the MAIN reason I moved is the statutory inability to defend myself OR my preps under NYC/NJ laws.

[Betis70]

>>It’s a logistical nightmare up there that really can’t be 100% prepped for even IF you don’t live in an evac zone. The inability to completely prep, securely, up there is one reason I moved.

One the reasons I don’t live in a city.

[Black Agnes]

In a dense urban area how do you trim your neighbors tree? It’s just as likely to destroy your house as one in your own yard? Yes, you can sue him. That’s after the fact. My friend whose car got pancaked in his own garage? Not his tree. Another friend had (fortunately ONLY) his fence destroyed. Neighbors tree. Had it fallen another way (given the density up there) it likely would have hit a house.

The difference this time is the size of urban area affected. It’s the entire central part of the state. An area that’s WAY larger than any given metro area like houston. If you’ve never been there it’s difficult to comprehend. Combined with the suburban single family sprawl are areas with really really dense population. In 20+ apartment condo buildings. Sited 10 or 15 such buildings on a 25 acre plot.

But, post this storm I bet many townships will get draconian on the size of trees allowed to remain. If they don’t, insurance companies will!

[Black Agnes]

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

It’s difficult for people who’ve never lived up there to comprehend the issues involved in the clean up from this storm. Surely there ARE stupid people involved. But some of the contingencies are things NO amount of prepping can prepare for. Like No water, from ponds or streams. A lot of the ‘flood water’ is salty. That’ll screw up a lot of the advanced filtering systems. And isn’t safe to drink with ANY amount of boiling! NO ability to heat anything. No access to personal transportation at all. Because you can’t AFFORD a car. No place to STORE the preps. What happens to your preps if your NEIGHBOR’s tree falls on your home. Or their candle burns down the entire block. Or their potty overflows and floods YOUR preps. Or if your apartment building has a giant roof leak and floods everybody.

Ideally we’d all live in the country in homes without giant trees nearby. with our own wells with hand pumps and fireplaces and wood cook stoves. And big root cellars and pantries in a few different places in the house. Just in case. That’s a dreamland most people can’t afford. If you don’t inherit ‘family land’ the startup costs for that can be prohibitive. Even for little shacks in the middle of nowhere. And most people prefer to stay near friends and family. And where the jobs are...

[Betis70]

BTW I agree with your assessment of what is going on. I work for a company with offices in Seattle and the SF Bay Area. After Irene last year, and the freak Halloween snow storm (8 days each w/o power within the span of a month), and now this, co-workers are asking me if I might consider moving, presumably back there.

Uh, no. I have 5 acres of woodland for fire wood, plus an entire state forest, plenty of food and water, good sight-lines at approach points, a town where my family has lived for 42 years and knows everyone. Why would I want to move to someplace with the chance of a low freq, devastating impact natural disaster (massive earthquake) where I am stuck in a 400ft apartment? I’ll just get a job locally if my company gives me that ultimatum.

[TexasTransplant]

***** “It’s not an exaggeration that many of them literally can’t boil water.” *****

Many years ago I watched a daytime talk show that had a cook teaching Neil Diamond how to boil Spaghetti noodles, he didn’t know how... he really did not have a clue

TT

[Black Agnes]

Ping for that ‘cube’ thingie you have drawn up...

[Black Agnes]

You’re smarter than I was. I got sucked into the good paying job scam. 9/11 made me rethink a few things and not just paychecks. Fortunately for me I already had family that was rural and had lived in the same area 200+ years. And ‘family land’. the only thing I lack right now is a well with hand pump. BUT there are lots of local ponds and I have filtering equipment. The well is next though. Already have the wood burning cook stove. And a big orchard and garden. And chickens!

[annieokie]

If all the suggestions of survival is not there, there is only two options left

1. Evacuate WHEN TOLD TO DO SO.

2. MOVE out of the area whenever the opportunity arises.

There was plenty of time to PREP or evacuate. No excuses, none,nada, zilch.

We are watching vast amounts of money being spent in the Rescue efforts, that could have been spent on other things. My sympathies to all the idiots who stayed, but there is no way to FIX STUPID. Must be a genetic thing.

[Betis70]

Well it took me 5 years after 9/11 to make my move, so I’m not sure how smart I am. :) Came back to help family, who have sadly all passed away now.

I also need to look into the hand pump on the well. I’m not quite sure how good that will work in the winter here though.

Need to get busy planting some fruit bearing trees, maybe some nuts as well (though we could eat acorns which are numerous, they take a lot of processing). Chickens are great.

[Kickass Conservative]

Remember the Twilight Zone where the guy built a Bomb Shelter in his basement?

When it was thought there was going to be an imminent Nuclear Attack, his Neighbors (who thought the guy was crazy for building the Shelter) showed up at his door begging to be let in.

Human nature is well, human nature.

[Black Agnes]

No doubt there will be frozen pipes everywhere up there if it gets really cold before the power comes back. Mess upon mess upon mess.

When I lived in the NYC/NJ area I started pricing bugout camp type places in western PA. That’s when I decided it’d be way cheaper to move back near family. Even IF it meant relative poverty.

[Black Agnes]

I hate to burst your bubble, but most of the people affected, numberwise do NOT live in an area that was to be evaced. All my friends in central NJ were NOT anywhere NEAR an evac zone. One power company has started to hint that they’ll be without power for 6w. It will be really cold then. Fortunately they have a fireplace.

Only a very few people lived in Zone A in NJ or NYC area. The Zone B people were like the ones on the MS coast who were killed by Katrina surge.

The NHC predicted surge of X feet and they got surge of X+Y ft where Y was a significant number. Those who counted on some value near ‘X’, died. Even ‘disaster savvy’ MS coast residents died. Normalcy bias ain’t just for yankees...

Secondly, it’s pretty much impossible to find jobs for all the rest of them in non-urban areas. Where, exactly, would YOU put the 10M+ people who live in this particular megalopolis? And what sort of urban density problem in the midst of a future disaster would you be creating in the new ‘civilization’ site? My friends in central NJ work in big pharma. Other than Eli Lilly, pretty much all pharma R&D is in NJ. Then, if they DO all move, what happens to the homes they live in now? if someone buys those homes you have the same problem, only different people. If you ‘condemn’ the homes, do you reimburse them? They bought those houses fair and square. Do you confiscate them for their own good and dump them all out in nebraska somewhere? What jobs will they be able to get there, even IF you retrain them into another field?

Not everyone can live on or afford 20+ acres in the middle of nowhere.

They aren’t ‘STUPID’ because they live in NJ any more than any of the SE residents within 10m of the coast are ‘STUPID’ for living there. Bad things can happen anywhere. Are all SoCal residents stupid? What about all residents of Portland, Seattle or any other ‘volcano’ city? What about those who live in the New Madrid zone? Are they stupid if their entire home AND all their stash(es) get destroyed in the next ‘big one’? In the plains it could just as easily be an F5 slab scraper tornado. Are residents of tornado alley stupid?

I see ‘okie’ in your name? Are you in Oklahoma? If you have an F5 slab scraper next April, will you be living on the canned goods in your cellar? Because all your dry stuff in the top of your pantry will be spread over 3 counties. what if you’re 5m from home when the thing strikes? are you stupid for being away from your cellar? And if it takes your wellhead with it, what will you do for water? For fireplace. Or wood? Should the people of NJ resent our rescuing you from your basement should that happen? Can you fix that stupid for living in Oklahoma in the middle of tornado alley?

It’s easy to judge if you’ve never been there.

You’re very lucky if you’re self sufficient. You, of all people, should realize that your self sufficiency is only a slab scraper away from being naught as well. Instead of being judgemental, maybe try being thankful that it isn’t YOU. This time.

[Romulus]

In general, I do not support evacuation, for many of the reasons you have mentioned.

Living in or near a flood zone is different. The surge forecast was for 11 feet. It came in at 14. That caught a lot of people unaware, but we are not talking about coastal plains that go on for miles and miles. People have friends, families, co-workers they can move in with.

Water can and should have been stored — in cat litter pails, 5 gallon buckets, collapsible containers, gallon jugs, and — yeah — bathtubs. It doesn’t take that much room. Neither do canned foods and a few jars of peanut butter. C’mon, people.

My bottom line is the astonishing risks being run by people living in flood zones in the NYC archipelago. If many of the preps and work-arounds available to people in other areas are impossible to the majority of New Yorkers, what does that say about the responsibility and practicality of the way they live? These are people living on the edge, incapable on putting aside a few days’ food and water, and utterly incapable of sustaining life without access to electricity. There is absolutely no slack in their system, no margin for error or contingency. People who presumably do not think well of drunk driving or promiscuous sex or intravenous drug abuse or sleeping in a tent in the woods have nevertheless given no thought at all to how perilously close to the edge of disaster they live every day. At least in New Orleans, we know we are, and enjoy life accordingly. What’s y’all’s excuse? It’s just bizarre.