Judge Rules Against NRA in "Docs vs. Glocks" Case

Miami Herald ^ | 7/3/12 | Jay Weaver

[MedNole]

A federal judge has blocked the state of Florida from enforcing a new law pushed by firearm advocates that banned thousands of doctors from discussing gun ownership with their patients.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke, who had already issued a preliminary injunction last September, made her decision permanent late Friday when she ruled in favor of groups of physicians who asserted the state violated their free speech rights. She said the law was so “vague” that it violated the First Amendment rights of doctors, noting the legislation’s privacy provisions “fail to provide any standards for practitioners to follow.”

The physicians’ lawsuit, an ideological battle between advocates of free speech and the right to bear arms, has been dubbed “Docs vs. Glocks.” The state Department of Health could appeal her summary judgment, which addressed legislation signed into law last year by Gov. Rick Scott.

In her 25-page ruling, Cooke clearly sided with the physicians, saying evidence showed that physicians began “self-censoring” because of the “chilling” effect of the legislation.

“What is curious about this law — and what makes it different from so many other laws involving practitioners’ speech — is that it aims to restrict a practitioner’s ability to provide truthful, non-misleading information to a patient, whether relevant or not at the time of the consult with the patient,” Cooke wrote, citing the benefit of such “preventive medicine.”

A federal judge has blocked the state of Florida from enforcing a new law pushed by firearm advocates that banned thousands of doctors from discussing gun ownership with their patients.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke, who had already issued a preliminary injunction last September, made her decision permanent late Friday when she ruled in favor of groups of physicians who asserted the state violated their free speech rights. .

[Oberon]

Now that Obamacare is in force, it’s entirely possible that the Federal government could have regular access to your medical records. Any answer to such firearms-related questions would be logged in said records, and therefore accessible by the Feds.

[GregoTX]

I went to a doctor last week, and when filling out my usual paperwork that asked insurance and medical questions a gun question was in there. I think the question was: Do you have a gun in you home that may be accessible to children. My answer to that one and all the non relevant questions was "Non of your business",but I was certainly surprised to see a gun ownership question on a medical form.

I guess someday we will look back at how gun ownership was a freedom and not a healthcare issue.

[Cyclone59]

I’d be willing to bet the farm that docs don’t ask that question of the fine folks who run to the emergency room with a hangnail or the birth of their 6th child from the 3rd different father..... just saying.

Seriously, what is one to do, just say no? Although I love the response about having an arsenal that would scare the crap out of you.

[ScottinVA]

No worries... the Supremes will set this right...

Or not.

[chainsaw]

To most of the questions, simply tell him/her it’s none of their business. If the Doc doesn’t like your answers he/she can just discharge you from his service. Soon he won’t have any patients to bill.

[Pollster1]

No doctor will ask this question of my children; it is none of their business. Any doctor who attempts to ask will be cut off immediately and informed that his job is to deal with illness. So far, none of my doctors have been liberal Nazis who would ask that question, except with respect to encouraging children to enjoy hunting season.

[rktman]

You also gotta reveal that you like skittles and Arizona Ice Tea with some cold meds mixed in to get a little “lean” goin’ on. Or you could say that it isn’t relevant to treating your piles so “next question please”. Or you could ask if the doc ever goes over the speed limit. Or like Nancy said. “Just say NO!”

Helping keep mankind warm for 65 years.

[MedNole]

I don’t have any problem with people objecting to questions from their doctor they find intrusive. I do, however, find it offensive that the government thinks it should be illegal for ANY particular individual or class (whether they are a doctor, lawyer, plumber, etc) to ask a question. It’s a perfect example of government sticking its nose in a place it doesn’t belong.

[Dick Vomer]

I’m in Texas and I assume every patient has a gun. Or they’re from California, New England or pussies.... which opens them up for other risk factors.

[Raven6]

My 7 year old son fully understands the 2nd Amendment and the purpose behind it. I have also taught him not to lie... But, after explaning the whole anti-gun crowd to him and why such questions about guns would be asked by his pediatrician, we formulated this standard response should the doctor ask such a question: "Are you kidding me? Those things are dangerous..."

And he can give that answer in a performance that is deserving of an Academy Award. It imediately causes the doctor to cease any further inquiries as to what dangers are in the home...

[rktman]

That’s funny! But I gotta bet that a box gets checked somewhere along the line.

Helping keep mankind warm for 65 years.

[hal ogen]

Why is it that docs never ask the most critical preventative-health question: “Do you have a liberal in your family?”

[Wonder Warthog]

"Doctors argued that as part of a medical screening exam they ask about everything from swimming pools, seat belts, bike safety, guns, etc. to make sure that all appropriate safety measures were being taken. They argued that that they have free speech like anyone else, and if the patient/parent doesn't like it, then they are free to go elsewhere.

I have yet to have ANY physician ask me about ANY of those topics. And if one ever does, my response will be "that is NOYFB" and walk out.

[SaraJohnson]

People are going to have to learn to shut their big mouths now that we live in a communist country.

Doctors now report everything they know about you to Washington. Since our elite are trying to do to us, everything that Britian does to it’s people, I imagine public schools are collecting inappropriate, private information on parents shared by students.

NRA should run a ‘zip it’ campaign to educate people about government spies and agents. Just because a doctor asks you a nosey question, does not mean you have to answer it. If they insist you answer inappropriate questions and threaten to withhold care if you do not privide it, there is nothing wrong with providing information in a way that protects your privacy - lying.

Also, it does not serve the public for communists to collect information on the pulic through prying surveys because they use that information to manipulate the public. Children, espeically should not be filling out inappropriate school surveys.

[moovova]

“I don’t talk about that. It would spoil the surprise.”

I haven’t finished reading all of the articles/comments at FR as yet, but...

...I’m gonna go ahead and recognize your comment as “Post Of The Day”.

[Mom MD]

I report nothing to Washington. I also don’t ask about gun ownership. I’m sensing a little paranoia here. If a doc asks about gun ownership, you re free to answer, not answer, lie, ask how it pertains to your visit, or tell them to myob. Yes the question got started by lib pediatricians, but we are adults. If a little question ties you in knots, how are you going to deal with the real erosion of freedoms coming our way?

[CodeToad]

I was asked that question. I responded by asking a rather nasty personal question about sodomizing his wife and said, “Hey, as long as we are asking inappropriate and personal questions we have no business asking. By the way, you’re fired”, and walked out. Never went back.

FR had alerte me that this question was circulating doctor’s offices so I had that question in mind when I needed to go see the doc.

[lag along]

These questions and answers go into your medical file. Some are mandated by various health plans, states and feds. This is not your plumber being curious this is sanctioned intrusiveness that should be stopped.

As others have posted, answering MYOB can be treated may be treated as a yes.

How about a friendly visit from your local government child welfare inspector with cops to investigate the dangerous situation in your home - or to remove your children from the dangerous gun environment?

I agree that the state should not bar anyone from asking a question - but I have no problem with barring medical and others from collecting those questions and answers and incorporating those into a medical file or other government or quasi-government records that can be and will be used against you before you ever have a chance to have a day in court.

[Salgak]

There's a simple fix for this: carry one of THESE FORMS every time you visit a doctor, and ask the following questions:

1. Who provides your liability/malpractice insurance ?

2. What is your agent's name and phone number ?

3. Will your insurance be happy with you when they find you've been dispensing advice outside your trained and certified area ?

Works every time. . .

[Mr Rogers]

If my doctor asks about swimming pools, I ask if he is interested in buying my house. If he asks about guns, I ask him if he needs to buy some guns.

Then I point out that I shave with a double-sided razor because the blades only cost 8 cents each...