Posted on 06/22/2012 8:48:35 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
It is within the bounds of “open” Religion Forum town square style debate for a Freeper to express his hatred of a belief. But such posts are never allowed on RF threads labeled “prayer” “devotional” “caucus” or “ecumenical.”
It is never within the bounds on the Religion Forum for a Freeper to express his hatred of people who hold a particular belief when any Freeper is part of the belief group.
For example:
It is ok to express hatred towards CatholicISM on “open” Religion Forum threads. It is never ok to express hatred towards Catholics because some Freepers are Catholic.
It is ok to express hatred towards ProtestantISM on “open” Religion Forum threads. It is never ok to express hatred towards Protestants because some Freepers are Protestant.
It is ok to express hatred towards SatanISM and Satanists both because no Freeper is Satanist.
Some political posters are now venturing onto the Religion Forum probably because Romney’s beliefs are at issue in this election.
If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the Free Republic browse option list. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."
Finally, whereas posters may argue vigorously for and against beliefs on “open” Religion Forum threads it is never tolerable to use ad hominems in religious debate because they invariably lead to flame wars when the subject is one’s deeply held religious beliefs.
For something to be "making it personal" it must be speaking to another Freeper, personally.
"Protestants are heretics" is not making it personal. "You are a heretic" is making it personal. "Catholics worship Mary" is not making it personal. "You worship Mary" is making it personal. "Mormons worship many gods" is not making it personal. "You worship many gods" is making it personal.
However, when a poster paints with a brush that accuses an entire religion of criminal behavior - his post will be pulled as flame bait. For example, posts that say "Protestants kill babies" or "Catholics molest children" or "Mormons kill non-Mormons" will be pulled. However, if the post is specific about a non-Freeper, I will not pull it. For example "Rev. Doe says abortion and infanticide are not sin" or "Father Doe was convicted for molesting those kids" or "Mormons killed non-Mormons at Mountain Meadows" would not be pulled.
Statements formed as questions are rarely "making it personal."
"Are you a heretic" is not making it personal. "You are a heretic" is making it personal.
Forms of "making it personal" include mind reading, attributing motive, accusing another Freeper of telling a lie (because it attributes motive, the intent to deceive) - making the thread "about" individual Freeper(s), following a Freeper from thread to thread and badgering a Freeper over-and-again with the same question.
When in doubt, avoid the use of the pronoun "you" and Freeper's names - or put yourself in the other guy's shoes.
Despite all these efforts to eliminate ad hominems, there is nothing I can do to keep you from "taking it personally."
If you keep getting your feelings hurt because other posters ridicule or disapprove or hate what you hold dear, then you are too thin-skinned to be involved in “open” RF debate. You should IGNORE “open” RF threads altogether and instead post to RF threads labeled “prayer” “devotional” “caucus” or “ecumenical.”
'Prevail' all you want; but it PLAINLY shows that the REVELATION of JESUS being the Messiah is the ROCK; no matter what your church wants it to be.
OH?
You have not convinced me.
> Perhaps there is another more obvious answer that ...(we) are missing. We need only look at the preceding verses to find it:
15 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? 16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:15-18 Douay- Rheims)
When Jesus talks about "this rock" he is not referring to Peter, but instead Peter's confession of faith in the preceding verses. Jesus isn't jumping from one subject (that He is the Christ) to another (primacy of Peter). It is a continuation of the same subject - who do people believe that Christ is. If you look at the following verse 20 you can see that Jesus has not changed subject because he is commanding them not to reveal that He is the Christ.
> Jesus thus does not declare the primacy of Peter, but rather declares that his church will be built upon the foundation of the revelation of and confession of faith of Jesus as the Christ. The "rock" gentlemen is our faith in Christ. (posted at FR by Between the Lines, a sew moons ago) ...
[That was so well stated that I would only add, 'faith' is an action word, as in 'to faithe' in the delivering Power and Grace of God through Jesus Christ in the person of the Holy Spirit indwelling the faither.]
Another thing that the 'church' has messed up.
How does one morph a YEARLY meal of rememberance; PASSOVER; into a ritual that occurs every time you enter the church - filling it with some mystical hocus-pocus.
Wordplay and humor indeed!
Amen. Peter did not die on the cross for anyone, and would be astounded that he should ever be 'worshipped'. He was 'just another lost soul' like all the rest of us....until Christ got a hold of him, he believed and accepted Christ through faith.
That was neither my intention nor expectation. I only speak the truth, what you do with it is between you and God.
Peace be with you.
In fact Peter did die on the cross - upside down by request out of respect for his Savior - sacrificing as a witness to his flock of faith in Christ.
The plain and clear meaning within the context of what I wrote: Peter was not and is not the Savior, Who did die on the cross and Whose death was a requirement for the redemption unto those who believe.
St. Peter died for Christ.
Peace be with you.
And Peter’s death caused salvation unto and for whom? It is Christ who saves, not man. Is is the Holy Spirit who stirs each person’s heart toward the Lord.
There are many martyrs, and none should be worshiped. God forbids this.
Romans 1:25: They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen
“There are many martyrs, and none should be worshiped. God forbids this.”
There are recognizable patters in religions and cults around the world and throughout history. Groups that elevate men do so because it makes them feel as if they can become elevated as well. This is why God forbade it, and why its so popular.
That’s exactly correct. And I recall correctly, this ‘pride of self’, this feeling of superiority and ‘godly’ powers, started with Lucifer, who thought he, a creature, should be worshiped, and still does.
Where did you get the notion that Catholics worship St. Peter? St. Peter declared himself unworthy of dying like Jesus, but never shied from dying for Jesus.
Peace be with you
I was raised Catholic. Of course, Catholics don’t use the word ‘worship’, but when the nuns, priests, and dogmas of the religion tell you to pray to the dead ‘saints’, and elevate creatures made in God’s image as something more than mere mortals, I call a spade a spade. That’s worship.
You 'spoke' a whole lot of OTHER stuff that is in no way supported by Scripture.
If the RCC wants folks to BELIEVE this extraneous stuff; that 'explains' what the bible 'says'; then they SHOULD have claimed, way back when, that GOD also inspired the 'experts' to pen things HE wanted us to know; and then called it SCRIPTURE, too!
Evidently the great doctor Luke, who, in writing to Theophilus, didn't think that much explantion was needed as much as Rome later did.
But he rose AGAIN; for NO one!
It gets emulated over and over.
MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t! 3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t! 4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal! 5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers! 6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t! 7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t. 8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures). 9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith. 10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly. 11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. — -- You can’t. 12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't. 14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't 15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself. 16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't. 17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t. 18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t. 19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't. 20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going! 21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where. 22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t. 23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty. 25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!) 26. I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over). Revision 46.5
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.
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It gets emulated over and over.
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.
18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.
24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
"ton arton hemon ton epiousion"
What does epousion mean to you?
Peace be with you.
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