Posted on 05/29/2012 9:17:57 AM PDT by Feline_AIDS
Alternate title for this post:
Dreams from My Freightcar: A Story of Pace and Incompetence
1. Why can't private passenger trains operate like plane companies?
2. Why don't we rip up some old tracks and turn them into true high-speed elevated rail that travels at 500 kilometers/hr?
3. Why is Amtrack, as it is now, so inefficient and crappy when train transportation is supposedly so efficient (CSX's 430+miles/gallon fuel)
4. There seems to be an inverse relationship of luxury to efficiency. Plane travel is torture, but it's efficient. Train travel could be luxurious since it's not fuel inefficient, but is time inefficient. Why is this ratio not considered for leisure travel? In other words, weight doesn't seem like it should be a serious consideration in train travel like it is in air travel, so why don't we have palatial luxury compartments? Is there a limit to the length of a passenger train?
5. Is Amtrack not as bad as I think it is? (All I know is I thought maybe I'd take a train on a leisure trip, but found the prices were outrageous, at least compared to flying.)
As a General trudging around Europe going from one fine road system to another that looked straight from the 1800’s.
He envisioned a universal road system throughout the U.S. in grid like fashion simply as a means to easily transport military stuff in time of necessity. Hence the Interstate system.
Until and unless the military finds a need for a high speed train system it will not happen.
Actually in relation to the highway system the feds make the roads cost more with the multiple regulations and controlling agencies. The Feds fund the highways, rails and airlines systems from multiple funds. The largest is the from the gas/diesel tax that everyone pays when they fill up their tank. This money which comes from the states is divvied out per law by which most state do not get as much funding for highways as is sent to the feds. If we could get the feds out of the highway racket it would be better for all.
Government won’t allow high speed rail to be private. Can you imagine getting approval?
High speed rail only works if its noded, because being able to go 150mph is meaningless if you are stopping every 10 minutes. To make money, you then have to have a lot of people that want to ride.
Too far and planes are much faster, too close and there isn’t enough advantage over driving.
300-600 miles between major cities is generally the sweet spot when you do the time and cost ananlysis.
There are not very many large city pairs that fit that criteria in the U.S.
That said, I think that the ability to due semi-fast rail, with your car along would be profitable. The appeal there is to save money on a rental at your destination, while keeping your bags locked in your trunk.
Going 1,500 miles in 10 hours, with your car, would appeal to many people.
“;;I have taken several Amtrak voyages, but not as transportation as much as the vacation itself. it is a wonderful thing to sit back with coffee and watch America go by.
Recommend the Starlight between LA and Seattle, along the Pacific coast, as the one I like best so far. “
I took the Starlight to LA from Oakland recently. Not fast, but clean with decent food. Ninety-four bucks round trip. I would not call that expensive with gas at four bucks a gallon it was a deal. and as you point out, you can just watch America go by. But you can’t be in a hurry, eleven hours each way.
Trains run on rails that requires rights of way & track beds also high speed rail requires several things paying passengers ,well maintained rail beds ,well maintained rails/rolling stock,routes were you don’t have lots of stops cause you have to stop restart & that slows you down then you have the towns the train runs thru will bitch about noise & then demand the trains slow down to keep quiet .
Aircraft on the other hand take off climb to altitude were for the most part they aren’t heard & go to where ever they have to.
1. Why can't private passenger trains operate like plane companies?There are only 2 airlines (plane companies) that turn a profit, Southwest and Alaska.
The seeds of Amtrak go back to the Wilson administration or earlier.
The short answer is that the US Railroads were heavily regulated and dependent on mail contracts and their competition was effectively government subsidised with lower operating costs.
The US Government killed private passenger rail, the railroads were a somewhat unwilling accomplice.
Amtrak was an attempt to keep the trains running while ignoring the actual causes of the problem.
Dreams from My Freightcar: A Story of Pace and IncompetenceSounds more like a trip to the death camp.
Yes that is the turd in the punch bowl everyone ignores.
And the only way to go about fixing such is to have the Gub'ment build more rail lines and buy up the ones already laid and have them administered by the FEDGOV which the mere thought of makes me nauseous.
It could if someone ever got the incentive to restore passenger service!! However, we need to get our act together and renew our passenger trains. Look at the AMTRAK map. Vermont has better service than Florida.
National Association of Rail Passenger can give you more info...
I spent 32 years working for a state DOT. Part of my job involved analyzing the cost-effectiveness of various travel modes. Let me give your questions a shot.
1. Why can’t private passenger trains operate like plane companies? ANSWER: To an extent they do. However, they lack the volume to make the service competitive. Our modern society demands speed. Trains cannot deliver this speed.
2. Why don’t we rip up some old tracks and turn them into true high-speed elevated rail that travels at 500 kilometers/hr? ANSWER: This would be enormously expensive. An elevated line would be the equivalent of a continous bridge. It would also be redundant. We already have a 500 mph transportation system with a relatively inexpensive infrastructure—the commercial airlines.
3. Why is Amtrack, as it is now, so inefficient and crappy when train transportation is supposedly so efficient (CSX’s 430+miles/gallon fuel) ANSWER: Trains get their efficiency from accumulating traffic in bulk. Rail freight is considered to be “on time” if it arrives within 24 hours of its scheduled delivery time. Passengers would not be willing to sit on rail sidings waiting until an efficient number of passengers was accumulated for a cost-effective run.
4. There seems to be an inverse relationship of luxury to efficiency. Plane travel is torture, but it’s efficient. Train travel could be luxurious since it’s not fuel inefficient, but is time inefficient. Why is this ratio not considered for leisure travel? In other words, weight doesn’t seem like it should be a serious consideration in train travel like it is in air travel, so why don’t we have palatial luxury compartments? Is there a limit to the length of a passenger train? ANSWER: You have stumbled onto the one potentially viable option for rail passenger travel—as a luxury mode of travel. Passenger trains that operated like cruise lines could serve a relatively small share of the market. Trains could “cruise” over land and stop at “ports” for some off-train activity before they resume their run. Of course, the cost would be very high, but since it would include mobile lodging it could be an attractive vacation option. Trains can be very long. Sometimes there are freight trains over a mile in length. So it’s conceivable that a lengthy luxury passenger train could be put into operation. However, there would be logistical complexities that would impede the speed and convenience (i.e., difficulty parking the train at a passenger station). Whether there would be enough demand to warrant the effort to overcome these complexities is unknown.
5. Is Amtrack not as bad as I think it is? (All I know is I thought maybe I’d take a train on a leisure trip, but found the prices were outrageous, at least compared to flying.) ANSWER: Amtrak is probably worse than you think. It is trying to serve a demand that is essentially nonexistent. Because it is subsidized by the government it is forced toward inefficiencies in order to meet political demands. As long as it continues in its current ownership/operational mode it will never offer an attractive or efficient product.
ANSWER: Amtrak is probably worse than you think. It is trying to serve a demand that is essentially nonexistent. Because it is subsidized by the government it is forced toward inefficiencies in order to meet political demands. As long as it continues in its current ownership/operational mode it will never offer an attractive or efficient product.
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The Fools of Amtrack have expanded the underused services of the new Portland to Boston run which has been consistantly losing monies for years. It is now extended to Freeport under the assumption that people are going to spend time on a train to shop there. Better shopping lies between Freeport and Boston, I assure you, and LLBean is just a call away.
Fools!
That and there are places where the stops would make a lot of sense but aren't there. Phoenix is, last I heard, the 6th largest city in the country but there is no Amtrak station here.
Freight has always been more profitable than passenger service (even on airlines)for the most part.
Private roads are much more efficient because they have to make a profit to survive.
That’s a good question. What did he do? I knew I hadn’t seen him around.
Got in an arguement with Jim Robinson. See here.
It’s not wanted here. Drop it or leave. The choice is yours and I’m not going to argue with you about it. Zip it or zot it.
65 posted on 10/14/2010 2:18:54 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Just vote them OUT!!)
The sleeper service on Amtrak is what is expensive. Book coach for day trips and it’s about the same price as flying but with none of the hassle. Of course, you and your destination would have to be on the system. Seating is as roomy as Business on the airlines, and you can move around easily, including the option of real food in a dining car.
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