A (Virgil)'Goode' plan to save American jobs

As President Obama and likely Republican nominee Mitt Romney remain locked in a virtual dead heat, is there any room for a third party to make a statement or even be competitive in 2012?

Goode says Obama’s spending is completely out of control but Republican proposals are also not good enough because he says the budget needs to be balanced now and not in a few years or a couple of generations from now.

“I would submit a balanced budget if elected president, and it would be painful,” Goode told WND.

He expects a fierce fight with Congress about cutting spending, but his plan would not focus on entitlement reforms. Instead, Goode envisions big cuts in discretionary spending – both in the defense and domestic portions of the budget. When it comes to jobs, Goode’s top priorities are to end illegal immigration and nearly put a stop to legal immigration in order to prevent foreign workers from competing with Americans for the job opportunities that exist.

“We’ve got to focus on discretionary spending, social-services programs. For instance, I’ll make sure illegals and recent immigrants don’t get food stamps,” said Goode.

Goode says he would also seek to repeal Obama administration regulations that he says are stifling job creation. He would start with the Obama health care-laws which Goode considers the most repressive to job creators. The former congressman says he is not a spoiler in the race but is a much needed voice on fiscal responsibility, ending government programs for illegal immigrants and other issues.

Yashcheritsiy, betty boop has a long and solid history here on FR, for almost 14 years, of activism, of working in the trenches, of dialoging, and of artciulating the conservative position for our Constitutional Republic and its underlying fundamental moral and republican values as well as, if not better, than almost anyone on this forum.

She has actually lived in Mass while Romney was governor and has applied her knoweldge and experience to the equation and reached her conclusions. And you have the nerve and audacity to call here "socailly autistic?" To sarcastically indicate that her posts are nothing more than "loop de loops" trying to rationalize a vote for Romney when she doesn't "seriously believe the nonsense she's written," in effect calling her a liar?

Howgwash and absolute Bravo Sierra.

Let me quote your own words back to you, with just a couple of changes...changes susbstituting your own words again in your own earlier quote:

...how does somebody reason or communicate with someone who actually believes that? Seriously, how is communication with them even possible? If you have somebody who is willing to completely dismiss everything that somebody actually says about why they support Romney, and instead chalks it up to "loop de loops" and "social autusts"

You seem to be pretty good at doing the exact type of thing you accuse others of.

Fact is Betty Boop, as a very strong conservative behind enemey lines in Mass lived under the Romney governorship and she has some prtetty pointed things to say about it that do not happen to agree with the stereotype and absolute nature of the comments being made about Romney.

She has laid out why so many (not all) of the decisions that wre made in Mass simply had to be made that way because of the fact that the Mass legislature (and people) have hamstrung the governor as they have.

In addition to all that she has said, that perhaps, because of her longstanding reputation, we would be well served to consider, I personally know people in Mass who know the Romney's and attended church in the areas where he was an LDS leader...and they too, though they are very conservative and loyal Americans and do not support a number of positions that Romney has taken in the past, indicate that he is a good man, a loyal American, and a person of high moral integrity.

(I know this means that I am LDS and can easily be written off by you or others as "well, he's Mormon, what do you expect?") in the same manner you accuse others of writing counter arguements off because people don't like Mormons. So don't let that knife cut both ways...let's not let it cut at all. When it came time to vote in caucuses herein Idaho in the first round I voted for Santorum and in the second round (in our county) I voted for Newt. NEwt lost and ROmney won on that second ballot.

Fact is, Romney has a platform and set of issues he's been running on now for 5 or 6 years. They are written down. If he wins, it is what he will do. Based on what Betty Boop (whom I know and respect greatly) has told me, based on what my own personal friends have told me, based on his own statements in his campaign, it is clear that Rommney is running to define marriage as between a single man and woman, that he is not for gay marriage, that he is running as a pro-life candidate, that he intends to strengthen America's military and foreign policy, that he intends to repeal Obama Care, that he intends to drastically cut spending by the Federal Government (including gutting Planned Parenthood) and that he intends to balance the budget, to cut federal government regulation and corporate and personal taxes, and to get the free market economic engine running again.

These are the things he says he will do, and they are based on the changes he says he has made. And they are all good things.

I have a lot of people here pointing to things he has said and done in the past and trying to convince me that he still is what he was...that he has not changed...that he is only paying lip service and that he is, in essence ieing. The fact is, some of the things he says today I clearly do not agree with.

But, balanced against that I know people now who lived under his governance who say things (like betty whom I trust impeccably) which indicate he wasn't nearly as bad as he is painted out to be. I know people who know him personally who I trust impeccably who say he is a good man, family wise, community wise, and integrity wise...who know him personally in his daily walk. I personally have studied his record, the way things were organized in Mass, his vetoes (and everyone really should look at the things he tried to veto), and although there is a lot about his record I do not agree with, and there are things he says today that I do not agree with, based on all of this and what he is actually running on (as you say what he is actually saying), I must conclude that he would clearly be orders of magnitudse better for the Republic than Obama.

Still, he is by no means the perfect, or close to the perfect conservative candidate.

But the fact is, given the organization, given the ballots of the fifty states, given the dollars available, there is NO ONE who could possibly defeat Barack Obama in November other than Mitt Romney. Sorry, but that is the fact...that is the pragmatic, realistic situation we are in.

So I will vote for him because I will do nothing by my action or inaction to give Obama another four years where he is willfully and very quickly doing all in his power and quite a ferw things that are not delegated to him in pwoer that he is doing anyway, to destroy this Republic.

Romney is doing no such thing. He is not planning to do any such thing, and in fact what he is running on is actually a pretty good conservative platform when you just let it stand on its own. Given the totality of my own experiences, studies, and information from people I trust and respect, I do not expect a victorious Romney to be liberal or progressive, I expect he will be much further towrds conservative than all of this mantra suggests, and I believe a House and Senate in the majority with a lot more Tea Party candidates will deliver up the legislation for him to sign that keeps it that way.

we have absolutely no chance of that with Obama and the simple fact is if it is not Romney then it will be Obama.

So, I will vote for and support Romney and pray to God in HEaven that Obama can be defeated and that a Romney administration, coupled with the majority House and Senate will turn the nation away from the precipice and start to get us back on firm footing. I believe they will if we elect them and that is what I am going to do all in my power to accomplish.

AMERICA AT THE CROSSROADS OF HISTORY

Jeff, with all due respect, I'll feel free to say what I like and call it as I see it - whether you like it or not. I don't give a jigger how long BB has been on here, or where she's lived. She's still wrong, and her efforts at shilling for Romney are wrongheaded at best. She IS rationalizing her vote for Romney. She knows the same things about him that the rest of us do. She's choosing to ignore him because of irrational fear and naivete, as are you, Agamemnon, and the rest who are quivering in fear and supporting Romney even though he's not a conservative, never has been, and never will be.

I almost feel sorry for you guys, sitting there licking the hand that gives you a little nibble of the crumbs every once in a while. FR used to be a place where actual conservatives congregated. Now it seems to be a place where pseudo-conservatives with no principles congregate to pat themselves on the back for supporting Team R through think and thin.

It's a shame FR doesn't have a little more of the spirit JimRob himself displayed not so long ago:

You’re not getting the message. I’m not going to support or vote for that evil abortionist/socialist bastard Romney come hell or high water...

If this is the best they have to offer, eff the GOP!!

I fully concur with JimRob on this point. If Romney is the best that the GOP can offer, then the GOP does not deserve my vote. Period.

Agamemnon is right to point out that the two men standing for election (reelection) as president could not be where they are against God's Will. Effectively, we are given a choice of only these two candidates. I accept what I cannot change, and try to work through to the most good possible under the current conditions.

Neither you nor he know any of this. You don't know that it isn't God's will to step in, suddenly change the hearts of the plurality of the people in this country towards someone like Virgil goode, and leave both "major" parties high and dry. It may not be, it probably isn't, but you have no earthly idea whether it actually is or not, so stop trying to hide behind "it's God's will." Who knows? Maybe the GOP nominated Romney because it's God's will to give us a second term of Obamna, and nominating such an obvious spineless moron as Romney is the way to bring that about "under the sun"? Who knows, maybe I'm *supposed* to vote third party so that this happens, and brings God's will to pass? How would you or Agamemnon ever know the difference? You wouldn't.

Yes - the chances are that Romney or Obama will win, at least as it looks at present. But it's nothing but pridefulness to assume that what we infer from probability is "God's will." Sorry, but you simply cannot make a theologically credible argument about God's will prior to an event happening, unless you have specific revelation from the Word of God about that event in prophecy.

Granted, either Romney or Obama likely will be President next year. America is under God's judgment, and either of those two candidates will be a quite suitable vehicle for the pouring out of that judgment. However, like the prophets in Israel who, knowing the nation was under judgment, nevertheless continued to try to turn the people away from wickedness and following wicked kings, I will do the same thing in America, even with two wicked "major" party candidates.

No one ever said you were not free to say what you want...or even implied it. My point was simple. BB is well known for her positions and activities and dedication over a long period of years and perhaps her own thoughts on the matter based on living in Mass when Romney was governor are worthy of consideration.

Your attempts to characterize her, myself and others as “choosing to ignore him because of irrational fear and naivete, as are you, Agamemnon, and the rest who are quivering in fear,” and, “licking the hand that gives you a little nibble of the crumbs every once in a while...” are part of your freedom to express those views.

But for those who know us and of our own activities over the years, our own involvement, and to what degree we have gone to risk all in these efforts...such a characterization is so far off the mark as to be laughable.

We simply disagree, Yash...and that is fine.

I have not called you names, placed your honor, integrity, or bravery into question as a result of that disagreement, or disparaged you because of it. I have simpluy tried to point out reasons, again, why some of the points BB and others make are worthy of consideration.

Instead, you choose to make bald faced assetrtions about others which are simply false and meant only to marginalize those with whom you disagree as if though by simply stating such rediculous, bombastic statements it makes them true...almost like you were taking such points right out of Alinsky’s play book. Can’t you see that?

Again, you are free to say, feel, and voice your opinion however you feel. But that does not make what you say so, and particularly when you use such methods to try and score your points. It certainly does not serve the cause that you yourself espouse as critical for the Republic very well because such ad homion and vitriol does nothing to convince or move others toward your cause.

Prehaps you don’t care...and that’s fine too. But, IMHO, the end game of such a path and attitude towards others is a relatively small echo chamber that, again, does not serve your purpose well at all in helping the Republic.

One rea we can hopefully certainly agree on and must do in any case is to support an elect as many true conservatives into the House and Senate in Washington as possible, and into our state houses and county court houses. We will need them all in any case and I am committed to and will continue to do all in my power to impact that course of action as well.

almost like you were taking such points right out of Alinsky’s play book.

LOL...that's the second favorite accusation from the MittBots/mormons....

This is usually resorted to when other FReepers refuse to give in to the "vote against Romney is a vote for Obama" lecture.

But for those who know "us" and of our own activities over the years, our own involvement, and to what degree we have gone to risk all in these efforts...such a characterization is so far off the mark as to be laughable.

What exclusive "us" are you speaking of, Jeff? I've been here since 2001, and I recall a whole list of FReepers involved in "activities, involvements and risk" that do not necessarily agree with the ABOs.

Again, you are free to say, feel, and voice your opinion however you feel. But that does not make what you say so, and particularly when you use such methods to try and score your points.....

Gee, I haven't seen Yashcheritsiy using accusations of "alinksy" in trying to score points. That really looks like a "bald faced assetrtions about others which are simply false and meant only to marginalize those with whom you disagree as if though by simply stating such rediculous, bombastic statements".

IMO, you might want to read your words in which you begin with "No one ever said you were not free to say what you want" to find an attempt to "marginalize those with whom you disagree."

because such ad homion and vitriol does nothing to convince or move others toward your cause.

As I've suggested, read your own words. This is an open forum not a place in which one FReeper has "authority" over another with a podium to stand behind and lecture from.

Grey, does Yash need your help? He made some very strong assertions about myself and Betty to which I responded and then you jump into that repsonse as if though the former didn't happen. But it did. I did not call Yash anything, I indicated that the assertions he was making, the ad homian and vitriol sounded like Alinsky's play book. That's a simple observstion. If the shoe fits...wear it. I never said he was Alinsky or that he was using Alisnky. Just that it sounded like it and then I asked if he couldn't see that...in an effort to get them off a course I feel is detrimental to his own arguement. But then you knew that all of that, didn't you? Or not? Either you didn't read the whole conversation before jumping into the middle of it, in which case you're doing so without knowledge of the whole, which is never a very good idea...or you did read it all and are jumping in trying to turn the tables and make it sound like I am the one attacking when nothing is further from the truth. Luckily, most members of FR and those lurking have better reading comprehension skills than that. Your apparent efforts to try and turn the tables on people, who were not even referencing you, and go around like some kind of thread moderator or referee (and a slanted one at that IMHO, against those willing to vote for Romney in order to defeat Obama) are, well...IMHO just plain old lame. But that's just my opinion. Besides, I don't think Yash is in any need for you to speak or make the arguement for him. But, thanks just the same for your continued efforts to clarify the discussion between other individuals to your own ends.

There's a small but very vocal contingent here who's hatred of Mormonism is so total and complete that they'd rather the nation suffer another four years of the most destrctive, American-hating president who has ever sullied the Oval Office.

Yeah; hatred IS an ugly thing all right!

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

What is a "gay couple"?

Uh...

Future brimstone smellers?

Genesis 13:13

Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Ain't this just FABULOUS?? More?

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

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