Posted on 04/09/2012 4:51:05 AM PDT by nuconvert
After a decade of fighting in Afghanistan, at tremendous cost in American blood and treasure, many Americans are now asking: Why are we there? What do we have to show for our efforts? The answers are troubling: A government, under President Hamid Karzai, that is corrupt, largely incompetent, and of questionable loyalty; inept Afghan security forces that regularly turn their weapons on their American and NATO advisers; and a resurgent Taliban poised to regain control of the country after U.S. forces withdraw. Many look at these facts and conclude that the U.S. can’t win in Afghanistan and should therefore get out. But few have examined the dire consequences of losing.
-excerpt-
Many say that the American people, after ten years, are tired of the war in Afghanistan. But I believe Americans — and certainly the U.S. military — are tired of not winning. The U.S. is in dire need of a serious shift in strategy — from one that props up a corrupt and incompetent Afghan government and simply trains and equips its security forces, to one that smashes our enemies, the Taliban and al-Qaeda. America must allow U.S. combat forces, now largely restricted to defensive actions, to take the offensive, rout the enemy from safe havens in Afghanistan and the Pakistani tribal areas, radically reduce the Taliban’s military capability, and then declare victory (which, be it noted, President Obama failed to do in Iraq) and bring our troops home.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...
Hmmmm, interesting point and post. Wonder if Karen Hughes was the authoress of our problem as you say -- and pushed Bush over the edge into "nation-building", which we said, I thought, we were not going to do?
And this goes back to something I've been wondering about: can a feminized country do anything right?
We kicked the Taliban’s ass and taught the state supporters of terrorism a lesson that they only now are beginning to forget. I’d say the war in Afghanistan (and Iraq) bought the West a decade of freedom from the most egregious acts of terrorism on its own soil.
What does “winning” in Afghanistan look like? Anyone? Bueller?
We should have left in 2003 or so, right after the punitive expedition phase, before meals on wheels, aka “Nation Building”.
“...if their choice is to live in the 8th Century, so be it.”
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the root of the problem. You cannot force a feudal society of tribes and warlords who practice a vile, hateful religion and considers the rape of young boys as perfectly acceptable to live in the modern world if THEY DON’T WANT TO!
They enjoy being ignorant and perverse and THEY WILL NEVER CHANGE BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE TELLS THEM TO.
This is a fight to the death and thanks to our poor leadership, they are winning.
Well, that will sure answer the "was it worth it?" question, won't it? And the answer will be "NO", never mind that they started it by killing 3000 of our people out of a clear blue sky -- and we are going to let them finish it? And give them bragging rights?
Suggest you rethink a bit, amigo.
Yup...the Rooskies figured this out long time ago. As far as getting out, there are other ways of maintain a presence in the area.
True, but the wars also taught the islamic radicals a lesson: The West, and particularly the USA, can be worn down and can ultimately be beaten.
The radicals now believe that history is on their side, and they are right. They are emboldened everywhere, and pushing everywhere.
We should never have gotten into Afghanistan.
In a thousand years, nobody has ever been successful at a land war in that region.
We should have just bombed them into oblivion and come home.
If we really needed to target specific individuals, that should have been done by the CIA on a personal level.
We leave Afghanistan....And Then What Happens?
I’ve seen this movie before, and Randolf Scott does not save the day.
Instead we just embolden small weak nations that they can always count on us to restrict ourselves to defeat no matter how well trained our troops are, or how advanced our weaponry is because of self imposed restrictions. History is full of wars and how to win and lose them. We don't have to be as brutal as some in history, but it can only go so far before you are hindering yourself. Even in WW2 guys like General Patton got in trouble for stating obvious truths about war. We like to romanticize it instead of accepting the truths of it that we all know. We are so obsessed with the lives of civilians, many who are sympathizers, to the point we will lose the war to spare a life. That doesn't make us a great moral people, but an ignorant people. Accept war for what it is or don't support it. Those who support wars and the ridiculous ways we now fight them are the worst people, and responsible for many lost lives and a weakened nation. The war could still be won in a short and brutal fashion, but that's not going to happen. We will just lose it.
The only thing left for this is the final picture - the helicopter taking off from the roof of the US Embassy. It will be blamed on Bush.
The ONLY solution for this adversary.
Having been there, as I’m sure many on FR have been, I learned a few things. But one of the most poignant was that in order for anything to happen in Afghanistan that would be considered positive, in Western standards, it would probably take at least 2 generations.
You’re talking about educating a country where they wipe their asses with their hands, they sell their daughters, the tribal leader is more important than anyone else, kids mean nothing - especially girls and the grandaddy’s of them all(IMHO) are the concept of “Pashtun Man Love” and the rampant pedophilia - directed toward boys.
Most people in the western, civilized world couldn’t comprehend the savagery that is every day life in that country and never will.
Aaaannnnndddddddd....on top of all of that, the entire political, religious and socio-economic system is run by a bunch of thugs that hide behind their religion when its convenient for them. as does Islam in general.
Our troops have never lost in Afghanistan. In every instance when they have been called upon, our troops have resoundingly defeated the enemy.
Our politicians have played games there for years with warloards and Pakistan.
He could have raised the armed forces back to Cold War levels in an instant and annihilated the enemy, starting with Syria and moving east to Peshawar.
Instead we got lip quivering sentimentality and 'nation building' with savages abroad and tolerance for traitors in the opposition party and the press at home. Eight years and he couldn't send Khalid Sheik Mohammed to the gallows-- what a joke.
We will never win as long as our morally bankrupt elite cherishes their idiotic illusions more than their country and reality.
Tuer les tous Dieu connaisera les siens.
It will be his fault along with others, including our next President, because it can still be won with overwhelming force. The fact is the war should have, and could have, been over while Bush was in office. He didn't unleash the full U.S. military without restriction on their use of power while forgetting about nation building. He sent them in with the same unrealistic ways for victory, and our next President will be to blame for our lose or continued policy of fighting to lose, unless there is a dramatic change in policy. Those aren't the only two options no matter how unlikely it is we will actually ever see our military unleashed for total war. We should win the war the way we should have to begin with, and we all know that isn't going to happen. We pullout or stay put getting our guys killed for what we made mean nothing.
I would like to see someone finally admit that we were naive in thinking we could build a civilized pro-American nation in Afghanistan, and have now halted those plans for an all-out destruction of the nation and Taliban strongholds in Pakistan.
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lls
The mistake with Afghanistan is in believing there is anything remotely redeemable about it. A collection of false religion fanatics still stuck in a time 1500 years ago.
In reality, it should have been nuked from orbit multiple times over. It is the only way to be sure it does not continue.
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