Posted on 02/10/2012 2:53:25 PM PST by MNDude
OK, I'm sure we all have friends or family members that we disagree with who call themselves "pro-choice."
These people will often feel ambigious about when life starts and don't feel it's right to make legal legislation about this. These are not the people I'm talking about.
I'm talking about those that for whatever REALLY REALLY REALLY love abortion. The ones that strongly support funding of abortion left and right, and those who seem obsessed with making it more and more available and considered. Like Obama working to get it into Kenya. Come on, it can't be about "women's rights?" In a third world, high Muslim population nation?
Is there anyone here that used to be pro-abortion? (not just "pro-choice". If so, could you offer some insight on their mentality?
Amen.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 - The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Having convinced themselves that God is not real, that human life is absent of eternal meaning, and that existence in ultimately futile, hopeless souls sometimes choose to commit terrible and destructive acts, so that they may find a simulacrum of reason in the mastery of Death. In such service, the killing of one’s own unborn child is at once an ultimate act of brutal self-negation, and of a defiant solipsism.
I walked in pro-abortion movements when I was in college. Here is my story.
When I first learned what abortion was when I was around 12, I was horrified and said that I was against it. Why did I change? Bear with me.
As a teenager, I honestly tried to be a good person. But, like the rest of humanity, I could never live up to my own expectations. I could never study for as many hours a day as the top students. I didn’t treat my parents as well as I should have.
The most mature response would have been “well, just do your best, keep trying to do better, but accept that you are imperfect.” But to a teenager with self-confidence issues, accepting imperfection was impossible.
I therefore resented those who were placing what I felt were impossible standards on me. I was drawn to relativistic philosophies, which didn’t feel so suffocating and where I could define myself as the hero. I was subconsciously feeling guilty about not achieving the standards I felt I should achieve, and needed to attack someone to assuage my guilt.
I had gone to Bible school a little bit when I was young, and I remembered the moral precepts they taught me. I therefore resented them for teaching me the “impossible” standards, and decided the traditional Christian Church would be my enemy.
In college, I learned the traditional Christian Church was against abortion. I therefore was drawn to the pro-choice side. Also, I went to a very liberal college, and women liked guys who were pro-choice.
But even then, abortion always made me very uncomfortable. The truth is that abortion is uncomfortable to most of its advocates, which is why they compensate by getting so passionate about defending it.
The best way to win the abortion fight is not to get sidetracked on any other issues but to emphasize that the child is alive. Avoid getting into discussions of sexual morality or the Bible or whatever. The only subject that matters is biology.
Having convinced themselves that God is not real, that human life is absent of eternal meaning, and that existence is ultimately futile, hopeless souls sometimes choose to commit terrible and destructive acts, so that they may find a simulacrum of reason in the mastery of Death. In such service, the killing of one’s own unborn child is at once an ultimate act of brutal self-negation, and of a defiant solipsism.
Because a world with a steady or declining population doesn’t require the innovation of free market capitalism to feed, cloth, and maintain quality of life for people.
They think it is a necessary key to “freedom”.
They usually view pregnancy as an endless painful experience that must be avoided.
They usually view babies and children as burdens that are obstacles to happiness.
The resent that men don’t pay the same physical consequences for sex that women do.
Just trying to do a better job than Hitler, Pol pot, Stalin
and every other commie leader that ever walked the face
of the earth. You can’t have communism without murdering
a whole bunch of people. This is the new and improved, PC
version of state sponsored murder.
“Because a world with a steady or declining population doesn’t require the innovation of free market capitalism to feed, cloth, and maintain quality of life for people”
Good point.
I stand corrected. Your retort is far more accurate.
Because it’s EVIL, and Liberals THRIVE on Evil.
Liberals believe childbirth should be safe, legal, and rare.
That, and they are filled with self loathing and see mankind as a scourge on the face of the earth. Since people are incarnate evil, the ends justifies most any means.
Most of the forgoing is true (I didn’t actually read every comment) and one more reason: They are in bed with the eugenisists. Their deluded brains are dreaming of “purifying the race” - killing or preventing the gestation and/or birth of human beings they consider inferior.
All the reasons you list for why liberals love abortion are correct, and there are probably even more you haven’t mentioned.
In particular, you say, “Some liberals love it because they make a living at it, one way or another.” You don’t know how correct you are!
I read something somewhere (I can’t remember where now, unfortunately) written by a liberal defending abortion, in which the argument was actually made that there are a lot of people working in abortion clinics nowadays, and if abortion were made illegal again, it would put a lot of people out of work—therefore, it would be immoral not only to outlaw abortion, but it would even be morally wrong to try to lessen the number of abortions performed! Can you believe that twisted logic?
You say, “Divide and conquer. Spies/espionage/corruption from within [the church].” I am afraid you are only too correct. Satanists and their ilk have infiltration of the churches on their agenda.
You go on to say, “Pit the power of politics against the teachings of the church...and consider that Nancy [Pelosi] is telling the bishops/cardinals behind the scenes, ‘You will go along with this; you will play the game or you get your tax status changed.’ Don’t doubt that some version of that occurs daily on an issue by issue basis.”
I do doubt that anything that blatant is taking place, but it may be playing out in some subtler form.
To bring up the question of a church having its tax-exempt status revoked, it seems to me that you’ve fallen into the same intellectual trap that 99.99% of Americans fall into. A church cannot have its tax-exempt status revoked. A church is BY DEFINITION tax-exempt! So why, then, do churches file for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status? They’ve fallen into the con, too! Churches do not need to ask the government for permission to be tax-exempt; they cannot be taxed under any circumstances! This is all a way for the government to control the churches—but that’s a topic for an entirely separate thread. Just thank our former Adulterer-in-Chief, LBJ, for this mess that we’re in today. (Yes, check it out—Lyndon Baines Johnson was one of the chief architects of destroying religious liberty in this country!)
You say, “I’m betting it’s the same answer you’ll get out of libertarians (the other liberals), where they will tell you that they believe it’s an individual right for each to make and it’s not something they believe others should have a say in.”
Unfortunately, you’re right—MOST libertarians would say that. On the other hand, there are a small minority of libertarians who are clear-headed enough to recognize that an unborn child is still a person and therefore has the right to life.
You ask, “Why does the Catholic Church permit these people [i.e., pro-abortionists] to remain members in good standing? Inquiring minds want to know. Have churches devolved into religious banks? Do you now get to decide by which of the church’s teachings you will abide? While we are going about cleaning up the country, we might want to do some housecleaning in our churches.”
Good questions! Let me begin by responding that I’m not sure that these people are all members in good standing of the Catholic church. I think it varies from diocese to diocese, but at least some bishops have taken steps to censure these people.
As for churches devolving into religious banks, I think your criticism is correct. Some clerics don’t want to take steps to discipline people, much less excommunicate them, especially if they’re good contributors to the church.
The Catholic church’s position is that, no, you don’t get to decide by which of the church’s teaching you will abide. Cafeteria Catholicism is not allowed, but that being said, it is too often tolerated nonetheless.
You are right, we need to do some housecleaning in our churches. “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1st Peter 4:17-18)
You are indeed correct about lesbians running abortion clinics and using their workplace as dating recruitment centers. However, there’s even more to it than that!
Just google (or better yet, ixquick) the name “Patricia Baird-Windle.” You’ll see that she was an abortionist who was also a witch. Abortion clinics are overrun with both witches and lesbians and are being used as recruitment centers for both.
I dread the day when the abortionists actually come clean about this, though, because they’ll invoke the constitutional protection of freedom of religion to shield their businesses as temples of Moloch, which is indeed what they are.
-—As for churches devolving into religious banks, I think your criticism is correct. Some clerics don’t want to take steps to discipline people, much less excommunicate them, especially if they’re good contributors to the church.——
Priests earn a small fixed salary. They have little interest in collections, and it shows! I’ve attended church for 40 years, and can count on both hands the number of appeals that I’ve heard regarding parish collections.
The annual Bishop’s appeal is different, but it’s mainly a direct mail campaign run out of the diocesan office.
The failure of priests to discipline church members is largely the result of touchy-feely hippy-era seminary formation, which is thankfully passing away.
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