WorldNutDaily stirring up trouble for the sake of sensationalism...
“Foetal”? Is there a Salvation Army of the British Isles, separate from the SA here in the States? I can’t imagine any North American using that spelling in a statement, not even a Canadian.
This is the link to the Salvation Army’s statement on abortion. It is long a detailed.
http://www.salvationist.org/extranet_main.nsf/vw_sublinks/8A04FA3170AA86AB8025774500731612?openDocument
I concur with Alveda King:
Alveda King, director of African American Outreach at Priests for Life, expressed similar suspicion.
“Good organizations become ‘infiltrated’ by forces that promote abortion, the breakdown of marriage, sexual immorality, etc. They come as wolves in sheep’s clothing and appear to be harmless and even helpful. Then they begin to reveal their true or basically untrue colors. This is sadly maybe what is happening to the Salvation Army. Not for sure, but maybe.”
Read more: Salvation Army marching toward abortion support? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=378413#ixzz1h1EdgKhG
Specifically, it says the Salvation Army "believes that termination [abortion] can occur only when carrying the pregnancy further seriously threatens the life of the mother; or reliable diagnostic procedures have identified a foetal abnormality considered incompatible with survival for more than a very brief post natal period."
Certainly doesn't sound like a blanket acceptance of abortion as you would lead us to believe.......
And as the next poster aptly posted, WND again stirring up crap........
I'm still waiting for the government to round me up, throw me into one of those unmarked white vans and take me to one of those hidden internment camps that Michael Rivero and WND warned us all about 20 years ago.........
FWIW, that was way before your time kid............
I saw SA bell-ringers outside Macy’s in San Franciscos’ Union Square. I don’t recall seeing them there before, although I might be wrong. A Pro-choice stance might have had something to do with this.
Unscrupulous people are constantly trying to infiltrate and undermine good organizations. In the 1980’s, my home town’s Salvation Army got busted for selling property to “friends” at a highly reduced price. When I lived in upstate New York, the Syracuse Rescue Mission got conned by a “2 for 1” matching scam, which made off with hundreds of thousands of dollars. Child molesters try to infiltrate churches and schools. It’s the way of an evil world. Sociopaths are really good at presenting themselves as Light.
Well, whadda ya know, it looks like St. Vincent isn't immune from that little thing called "abortion" either..........
Vincent de Paul Society Supporting Abortion-providing Health Care Plan
In all fairness to St. Vincent, their intent on the abortion topic is no more toxic or complicit than what you are attempting to lay on the Salvation Army........
If you wish to continue to condemn the Salvation Army then you must also use your same standard to condemn your own precious charity..........
The position on abortion of being "not at any time and not for any reason" is a specifically Roman Catholic position. In fact, at one time there was a popular prejudice among Protestants against having babies at Catholic hospitals because if it came to a choice of the baby or the mother, the hospital would save the baby and let the mother die.
Right and wrong are determined by Divine Law, not by secular moral instincts. According to this Divine Law the vast majority of abortions are forbidden, and many of these (though not all) are actually capital offenses. However, in a very few special instances (such as when a baby is a rodef, a "pursuer" who is about to kill the mother, and has not yet arrived at the point of "ensoulment") abortion is actually mandatory (after "ensoulment" abortion is forbidden even to save the mother's life and is murder). But either way, whether an abortion is forbidden or mandatory, is determined by Divine Law and not by human reasoning, sentiment, or instincts--and certainly not by anyone's "choice!"
I do not post this to defend abortion (G-d forbid!), but to remind everyone that secular morality--the determining of whether a thing is right or wrong based on anything other than G-d's Laws--is the very essence of the secularism and humanism that got us here to begin with.
Let G-d's holy laws determine right and wrong in all issues.
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<This, I'll have to rethink.
My original point was this: it's possible that the Salvation Army is going liberal, but it's also possible that the Salvation Army's position is in line with Halakhah. I don't know which. If the former, I am disgusted to hear it. If the latter, then well and good.
Different religions have different moral beliefs on various issues. Catholicism forbids divorce for any and all reasons (as I understand it). Judaism permits it (it's in the Torah), as do Protestantism and even Eastern Orthodoxy (up to a point). Similarly, the Torah permits (though it neither requires nor encourages) more than one wife at a time for a husband. Similarly the Torah (an ancient document) has laws that regulate slavery, concubinage, and even wars of extermination (these are also right there in the Biblical text). If one believes the Torah is either a mere human document (G-d forbid!) or of temporary duration (G-d forbid!) one can jettison these laws. If one, like myself, believes the Torah was actually written by G-d Himself and is eternal, then one does not have the option of saying "oh well, that was then; this is now." To believe the Torah is G-d's Ultimate Revelation is to believe these laws are eternally in force even when the circumstances they were originally given in no longer exist.
Judaism is not a pro-abortion religion; it celebrates life and fertility. But the authentic Jewish position on abortion is simply not the same as that of Catholicism. I am not responsible for this; I merely state the fact. There is absolutely no connection between the abortionism of liberal Jews and the genuine Halakhic position on abortion. Nor is the Halakhic position an elastic hole that one can drive a Mac truck through. It is in fact extremely restrictive. However, it is forbidden to add to the Torah or to subtract from it. The Halakhah is what it is, and though it agrees for the most part with the Catholic position it is not 100% identical to it. There is nothing hateful in merely stating this.
One poster pointed out that according to the Biblical text one who kills a pregnant woman is liable to the death penalty while one who causes a miscarriage is subject to a fine. This is the Biblical text. I did not write it. I have no say on how it is interpreted. It simply is what it is.
There is one and only one source of all morality: G-d. Apart from G-d nothing is right and nothing is wrong. To take a position apart from Divine legislation is to adopt a secular rationale. There is no secular rationale whatsoever for law, morality, ethics, or even why we are here. What G-d says is right is right; what G-d says is wrong is wrong. When G-d forbids one to kill one may not kill; when G-d commands one to kill one may not refrain from killing. No one can be more moral than G-d. The whole idea that G-d is a big meanie and that we are now more morally refined than His laws is the very source of liberalism (and Communism, and Randianism, and every other non-Theistic moral/ethical system).
I apologize to all who were offended or misrepresented by what I said. As I pointed out many times, I described things to the best of my limited knowledge.
Along the way I got the impression that I might be banned from this forum. I don't want to be banned from this forum and will endeavor to abide by all its rules. But I cannot change my religious beliefs or my understanding of G-d's Laws because of an Internet forum or even because of eighteenth century deists like Thomas Jefferson. My religious beliefs are very "primitive" by modern standards (even conservative ones). As I have admitted in the past I am a Theocrat and a Theonomist. I believe in a form of government that we will have in the future when Mashiach HaMelekh arrives and all mankind lives under his rule in accordance with the Laws of G-d and all false religions and false "gxds" are no more. My beliefs make me a guest on this forum and I acknowledge this and thank the Robinsons for putting up with me. It is their right to ban me (or anyone else) at any time and for any reason they choose. I will therefore endeavor to never again attempt to post what I understand to be the differences between the Catholic and authentic Jewish positions on abortion. But the differences do exist; I did not create them; and there is nothing I can do to make them go away.
I thank all FReepers for putting up with me. I know it isn't easy or fun.
My best to all FReepers at this festive season, and my prayers to G-d for our country at this crucial election cycle.
G-d help us all.