(child victim of Armenian genocide)
Posted on 12/18/2011 5:30:45 AM PST by markomalley
French president Nicholas Sarkozy's party has introduced legislation in that nation's legislature that would make illegal the denial of the infamous genocide perpetrated against Armenians and other Christians by the government of Turkey during the Second World War in 1915. This would make it a crime on par with denying the historicity of the Holocaust, perpetrated by the Germany's National Socialist government before and during the Second World War. Historians estimate that approximately 1.5 million Armenians died at the hands of the Turks, at the time ruled by the last of the Ottoman rulers. This was a planned and concerted effort by the erstwhile government of Turkey that was overthrown by Kemal Ataturk and replaced by a nationalist and secularist government. Turkey continues to deny that it ever happened. Turkey has long been plaqued by irredentist nationalist movements, especially on the part of ethnics Kurds, even while the government appears to become ever more Islamist in cast.
(child victim of Armenian genocide) |
Turkish prime minister Tayyip Erdogan severely criticized the proposed legislation. At a press conference in Ankara, Prime Minister Erdogan suggested that France should limit itself to looking into its own history of massacres in Algeria and Rwanda.
France is firmly opposed to extending EU membership to Turkey, due it the latter's supposed "democracy deficit." This deficit has actually increased under Turkish prime minister Erdogan. Besides Turkey's reiterated insistence that the megadeath of Armenians occurred within the context of a civil war in which the Ottomons were ejected, rather than a planned genocide, France has noted that Turkey continues to allow persecution of minority groups such as the Kurds, as well as Greek and Armenian Christians. Sources in Ankara warn that should the bill be passed by the French National Assembly, Turkey will retire its ambassador to Paris.
Over the last few years, the fears of Christians living in Greece has been piqued by the murder of a Catholic priest and a Protestant minister. It was a Turk who attempted to murder Pope John Paul II in the 1980s, while in the 1950s Turkish mobs ransacked the homes of Greek Christians living in Istanbul. It was also Turkey that invaded the island of Cyprus in the 1970s, seizing half the island as well as property abandoned by Greek Cypriots and then handing it over to Turkish settlers.
Turkey is a NATO ally of both France and the United States, but that relationship - forged during the Cold War - has been strained of late, especially because since the effective chilling of relations between Turkey and Israel.
These “speech crime” laws are frightening, and already popping up here in the US.
The Ottoman government was actually "The Islamic Caliphate".
That government was the government of Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, etc. at the time.
Over a very long period of time that government also included Greece, Algeria, Morocco, Spain, piece of France, Kazan, Kazakhistan, Turkmenistan, etc. (See: Charles Martel on the France part), Sicily, Tunisia, Egypt, etc.
Anatolia was only part of the picture ~
There's no way all those countries can crawl out from underneath their national responsibility for murdering the Armenians!
France is certainly trying to deny history ~
Sanctioned state or religious denial of historical facts are crimes against humanity and our future well being as a society. What this law is focused towards is the intentional re-writing of historical fact by first bestowing it legitimacy through propaganda.
The amazing thing is, the people making laws like these don’t seem to comprehend what they’re doing is just as despicable as the atrocities they are forbidding people to deny.
Crime, a noun. The appropriate definition to decide whether something is a crime should be #1; an action deemed injurious to the public welfare. How is saying something, true or not, injurious to the public welfare? Once you’ve defined one “thought crime” what stops you from defining everything you don’t like as a thought crime? Speak out against promiscuous behavior? Thought crime. Speak out against racial quotas? Thought crime.
crime
noun
1.
an action or an instance of negligence that is deemed injurious to the public welfare or morals or to the interests of the state and that is legally prohibited.
2.
criminal activity and those engaged in it: to fight crime.
3.
the habitual or frequent commission of crimes: a life of crime.
4.
any offense, serious wrongdoing, or sin.
5.
a foolish, senseless, or shameful act: It’s a crime to let that beautiful garden go to ruin.
Second World War in 1915? I think not.
Not sure which is scarier: A nation banning not referring to a genocide as a “genocide”....or the Islamic Apologists who defend the ever-increasing Muslim Turkey by denying the mention of Muslims comitting genocide against Christians about 100 yrs ago
A historical mention that doesn’t come up very often is that the Armenian genocide was not the first “industrial genocide” of the 20th Century. That dubious distinction goes to Mexico, with the railroad internal deportation of half of the Yaqui Indians to the Yucatan, to be slaves.
Though some deportations had been done in the late 19th Century, it did not begin in earnest until from 1902-1908, when men, women and children were loaded into boxcars to be sent south.
Wasn’t that the time the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
“These ‘speech crime’ laws are frightening, and already popping up here in the US.”
I agree. Therse “laws” are symptomatic of the very mindset they seek to condemn. People should be free to make fools of themselves, and free to present themselves as idiots.
Oh, La Raza is going to be pissed at what you said. Off to the re-education camps with you!
I thought Sarkozy was conservative, or as conservative as a French dude could muster.
Thought/speech police? What next?
Heck, we are seeing this sort of thing even in this country.
I don’t think La Raza would be too upset, as the US was a little complicit in this, deciding to deport a lot of Yaquis who had fled here, throwing them back over the border to the Mexican army.
This was followed by the Mexican Revolution, which so devastated the country that Mexicans are still traumatized by it. I’ll add the epilogue that the Yaqui deportees were only allowed to return from the Yucatan in the 1940s.
The Mexican President behind this, who the Mexicans revolted against, was Porfirio Diaz, who did a lot of good for Mexico, but is officially its great villain. He was actually responsible for building the good quality train system that was used in the deportation, and still exists today as one of the more functional parts of Mexico.
So as far as La Raza is concerned: US bad, Diaz bad, revolution good, and the Yaquis “meh”. For their part, the Yaquis and other Indians call the Mexicans “Yoris”, which is not particularly complementary.
Amen.
Two possibilities:
1. Journalism education.
2. Brainfart.
Abortion was a crime against humanity during the Nuremberg trials; I guess “crimes against humanity” are completely subjective.
People can re-write whatever they want, for whatever reason they want; otherwise, we are the Muslim enemy we detest.
“the people making laws like these don’t seem to comprehend what they’re doing is just as despicable as the atrocities they are forbidding people to deny.”
Absolutely; it is selective suppression of speech.
“People should be free to make fools of themselves, and free to present themselves as idiots.”
I completely agree; there are always different versions of events, and these laws determine an “official” version and forbid any debate on it.
...would make illegal the denial of the infamous genocide perpetrated against Armenians and other Christians by the government of Turkey during the [First] World War in 1915. This would make it a crime on par with denying the historicity of the Holocaust... Historians estimate that approximately 1.5 million Armenians died at the hands of the Turks, at the time ruled by the last of the Ottoman rulers. This was a planned and concerted effort by the erstwhile government of Turkey that was overthrown by Kemal Ataturk and replaced by a nationalist and secularist government. Turkey continues to deny that it ever happened. Turkey has long been plaqued by irredentist nationalist movements, especially on the part of ethnics Kurds, even while the government appears to become ever more Islamist in cast... France is firmly opposed to extending EU membership to Turkey, due it the latter's supposed "democracy deficit." This deficit has actually increased under Turkish prime minister Erdogan. Besides Turkey's reiterated insistence that the megadeath of Armenians occurred within the context of a civil war in which the Ottomons were ejected, rather than a planned genocide, France has noted that Turkey continues to allow persecution of minority groups such as the Kurds, as well as Greek and Armenian Christians... the fears of Christians living in Greece has been piqued by the murder of a Catholic priest and a Protestant minister. It was a Turk who attempted to murder Pope John Paul II in the 1980s, while in the 1950s Turkish mobs ransacked the homes of Greek Christians living in Istanbul.
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