Newt's Citizenship Problem (What does he mean by long established illegals who are "law abiding"?)

This is Newt's own written plan on who can stay and who must go:

We need a path to legality, but not citizenship, for some of these individuals who have deep ties to America, including family, church and community ties. We also need a path to swift but dignified repatriation for those who are transient and have no roots in America.

This is just amorphous pap that provides no real details on exactly how such a proposal would be administered. How does he define "deep roots" versus "no roots" in America? Family, church, and communtiy ties? This is just a smokescreen for amnesty that is no different than McCain and Obama who want to deport the 2 million "criminal aliens immediately and allow the rest to stay. With 8 million illegal aliens holding jobs in this country, why would you want to legalize their status when 25 million American citizens and LPRs are looking for fulltime employment?

Absolutely right! and btw..Newt NEVER said any illegals would be granted citizenship or amnesty.

Please send me the link in which Newt promised amnesty to illegals. Would prefer it be explicit.

I always equated amnesty to getting citizenship and the right to vote. That’s the biggest fear I think most conservatives have...is turning lose a bunch of line jumpers on the polls to vote their more freebies for their relatives to come and get some.

What do we do today with someone that has been here 30 years illegally? Do we deport them? If not, are we better off just letting them stay here illegaly, give them a path to residency, or do we round them up and send them back home (where ever that is)?

It means AMNESTY... and I will no longer accept spin and lies. Webster’s dictionary defines AMNESTY and PARDON... look them up.

LLS

You might be surprised at the number of people on this forum who think anyone who says anything kind or reasonable about illegals is dead meat.

I don’t think this will hurt Newt either, but it should at least shut people up who’ve been criticizing Rick Perry for far less radical statements and actions.

I will tell you what it is... it is progressive INCREMENTALISM PERIOD. Once they are legal residents... they will file suit against the government for discrimination and the march to citizenship is assured. These people cannot speak English... the majority cannot... they will not assimilate because they have not to date... many support reconquesta and la raza... they are enemy invaders.

LLS

Definition: Amnesty, from the same Greek root as "amnesia," forgives past crimes and removes them from the record for future purposes. In the context of immigration, amnesty is commonly defined as granting legal status to a group of individuals unlawfully present in a country. It overlooks the alien's illegal entry and ongoing illegal presence and creates a new legal status that allows the recipient to live and work in the country.

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986: The textbook example of an amnesty. The 1986 law's path to citizenship was not automatic. The legislation stipulated several requirements to receive amnesty, including payment of application fees, acquisition of English-language skills, understanding of American civics, a medical exam, and registration for military service. Individuals convicted of a felony or three misdemeanors were ineligible. No one disputes that this act provided amnesty. Supporters said it would be a “one-time” amnesty. It was estimated that one million would apply, but the true number turned out to be 2.7 million.

Any legislation that legalizes the status of those who broke our laws by entering our country illegally and allows them to stay is amnesty. We must not only prevent the Democrats and some moderate Republicans from hijacking the meaning of the word amnesty, but the public must be made aware about the true impact of an amnesty. The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty alone would be $2.6 trillion. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen.

What do we do today with someone that has been here 30 years illegally? Do we deport them? If not, are we better off just letting them stay here illegaly, give them a path to residency, or do we round them up and send them back home (where ever that is)?

No one is proposing that we "round them up." The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arizona proving that it does.

If you allow those lawbreakers to stay and work here, the object of their crime, then you send the message that all you have to do is just get to the US and eventually have your status legalized. Conferring rights and privileges upon illegal aliens has a corrosive effect on the Rule of Law, the very foundation of our Republic. It is also a slap in the face to legal immigrants who have followed the rules and obeyed the laws. There are millions of immigrants waiting their turn overseas to enter the U.S. legally and approximately 40 million immigrants living in the U.S., most of whom followed the law.

What do we do today with someone that has been here 30 years illegally?

FYI: We had a one time amnesty 25 years ago in 1986. The proponents like Ted Kennedy said it be the first and only amnesty and that it would solve our illegal immigration problem. The government estimated 1 million would apply, but the true number turned out to be 2.7 million. We now have 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. When you reward something, you get more of it. I see no real urgency to addressing the legal status of the current crop of lawbreakers. Let's try enforcing our laws and securing our borders, including implementing fully the US-VISIT program to track and deport visa overstays. 40% of the illegal aliens in this country came here legally and overstayed their visas.

Absolutely right! and btw..Newt NEVER said any illegals would be granted citizenship or amnesty.

Definition: Amnesty, from the same Greek root as "amnesia," forgives past crimes and removes them from the record for future purposes. In the context of immigration, amnesty is commonly defined as granting legal status to a group of individuals unlawfully present in a country. It overlooks the alien's illegal entry and ongoing illegal presence and creates a new legal status that allows the recipient to live and work in the country.

You are confusing amnesty with the right to citizenship. You don't need a path to citizenship to have an amnesty. In fact, many recipents of the 1986 amnesty chose not to be citizens but just green card holders, Legal Permanent Residents who enjoy almost all the rights and benefits of being a citizen except voting.

Do you support Obama's current "backdoor amnesty" of over 300,000 deportation cases that are being reviewed to allow their deportation rulings to be overturned and closed allowing them to stay and receive work permits?

Amnesty for illegals ain't going anywhere so this hit on Newt is moot.

You're "whistling past the graveyard" if you believe that bit of nonsense.

The GOP will jump at the chance with a GOP controlled house and senate to use the President as cover to get this past.

Newt will refine Bush's attempt at this boondoggle just enough to get it to past Home Plate.

Watch and Learn.

Thanks for the detailed response. Very thorough and reasoned answer. Attrition through enforcement...I like that.

Congress must charge the Department of Justice to establish a “citizens’ review” process for those here outside the law. It would establish committees to process these cases in individual communities and determine who will continue on this path to legality, and who will be sent home. Congress must define understandable, clear, objective legal standards that will be applied equally during this process. While this process is ongoing, those here outside the law will be granted Temporary Legal Status for a certain, limited period of time until all have had the opportunity to apply and appear in front of committees.

Applicants must first pass a criminal background check, and then the local committees will assess applications based on family and community ties, and ability to support oneself via employment without the assistance of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other entitlement programs.

The government will rigorously enforce a requirement that all individuals seeking this path to legality must be able to prove that they can independently pay for private health insurance. If an individual cannot prove this, they will lose the ability to stay in the United States.

Furthermore, proficiency in English within a certain number of years, similar to the requirement for naturalization, will be required for anyone who seeks continued legal status in the United States.

Once an applicant has been granted the right to obtain legal status, he or she will have to pay a penalty of at least $5,000.

Moving forward, those who receive this status will have to prove on a regular basis that they can support themselves without entitlement programs and pay for health insurance or else risk the ability to stay in the United States.

7. Deportation of criminals and gang members should be efficient and fast.

We must end the practice of “catch and release,” under which dangerous criminals here illegally are caught by law enforcement, but then quickly returned to society.

When someone is here illegally and is dangerous, there should be expedited procedures to remove them from the United States as rapidly as possible.

The current system is so cumbersome and time-consuming that many arrested non-citizens are released back into society and simply break their word and disappear. This is wrong and dangerous.
Not as simplistic as you stated and there is no amnesia involved...Newt is dealing with the problem that no one else has and no guarantees of anything...even to those that have lived here for 20 yrs or so...obstacles have to be overcome...as many relate Newts saying amnesty..he never said that..ever

I have read it all. I will dissect it for you.

Congress must charge the Department of Justice to establish a “citizens’ review” process for those here outside the law. It would establish committees to process these cases in individual communities and determine who will continue on this path to legality, and who will be sent home. Congress must define understandable, clear, objective legal standards that will be applied equally during this process. While this process is ongoing, those here outside the law will be granted Temporary Legal Status for a certain, limited period of time until all have had the opportunity to apply and appear in front of committees.

Can you imagine how such community groups in sanctuary cities like LA, SF, Chicago, Hartford, Washington, etc will work? Or the fraud that will be committed? Or how long it will take to process 12 to 20 million people? Or how many of the "criminal illegal aliens" will submit to this process.

These Temporary Legal Status visas are taken right out of the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill. They essentially legalize all kinds of people including those who may be terrorists or sleeper agents to create another identity.

The Senate Immigration Bill: A National Security Nightmare By Kris Kobach

Applicants must first pass a criminal background check, and then the local committees will assess applications based on family and community ties, and ability to support oneself via employment without the assistance of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other entitlement programs.

A criminal background check done by whom? If it is just done domestically, how do you identify national security risks from countries like China, Russia, Iraq, Iran, etc. Once you legalize these people they will pay into SS, Medicare etc making them eligible for benefits just like LPRs are now after a five year wait. Heritage estimates that amnesty will cost $2.7 trillion just for the entitlement programs. And we have the 300,000 to 400,000 anchor babies born illegal aliens. Illegal aliens use our welfare programs now along with legal immigrants. 57% of all immigrant headed households with children us at least one welfare program.

The government will rigorously enforce a requirement that all individuals seeking this path to legality must be able to prove that they can independently pay for private health insurance. If an individual cannot prove this, they will lose the ability to stay in the United States.

Government will rigorously enforce? LOL. Why can't the government demonstrate that it can enforce our existing laws rather than add new ones? And for how long will such a requirement be in force? What about their American born children? We are going to have a mandate for LPRs but not for US citizens? Is that constitutional?

Furthermore, proficiency in English within a certain number of years, similar to the requirement for naturalization, will be required for anyone who seeks continued legal status in the United States.

Right out of McCain-Kennedy. So exactly how are you going to enforce this requirement for millions of people? We have citizens now who are naturalized who cannot speak English fluently. What degree of proficiency is deemed sufficient? More meaningless words without an enforceable and workable program. You will need a huge bureaucracy to administer this programs. ICE is already overwhelmed.

Once an applicant has been granted the right to obtain legal status, he or she will have to pay a penalty of at least $5,000

So the price of legalization and the privilege to live and work in this country is a paltry $5,000. There are literally billions of people on this globe who would gladly pay such a sum for the similar privilege. Hell, some of the cayotes charge more to smuggle illegals in. This is just part of the pro-amnesty crowd's pay a fine, learn English etc. The educational levels of most immigrants will translate into them taking more money out of the system than they are contributing. We don't need more high school dropouts.

7. Deportation of criminals and gang members should be efficient and fast.

LOL. We have an estimated 2 million "criminal" illegal aliens. So how are we going to deport them efficiently and fast? McCain included the same thing in his amnesty bill only he said they should be deported "immediately." We can't even enforce our existing laws yet magically we can deport 2 million quickly. How? Round them up. And exactly what qualifies as a "criminal." The vast majority of illegals in this country have committed multiple crimes including ID theft, working illegally, tax evasion, driving without a license, etc. Over 50,000 Americans have been killed by illegal aliens since 9/11. There are 50,000 illegal aliens in federal prisons and several hundred thousand in state and local facilities.

Politicians who respond that we should deport “criminal” illegal aliens and that “undocumented workers who play by the rules” should have their status regularized in some way by the federal government, i.e., pay a fine, learn English, and get to the back of the line on a earned path to citizenship are supporters of amnesty. Trying to create two classes of illegal aliens is a distinction without a difference, except if you are intent on treating them differently, i.e., providing one group with an amnesty.

Not as simplistic as you stated and there is no amnesia involved...Newt is dealing with the problem that no one else has and no guarantees of anything...even to those that have lived here for 20 yrs or so...obstacles have to be overcome...as many relate Newts saying amnesty..he never said that..ever

As someone who has worked on this issue full time for the past five years as a member of an immigration grassroots organization that lobbies on the Hill and in Richmond, I have heard all of this before by the amnesty supporters. They try to change the language and the meanings of words.

Words have meanings. The Democrats and the mainstream media have hijacked the language surrounding the immigration issue to the point that we had Michael Chertoff, the Secretary of Homeland Security and our nation’s top immigration official at the time, testifying before Congress using the term “undocumented workers” to describe illegal aliens. John McCain and Barack Obama studiously avoided the term “amnesty” to describe their comprehensive immigration reform plans and despite the evidence, baldly declared that it was not an amnesty. Instead, they used such euphemisms as “getting to the back of the line,” “an earned path to citizenship,” and “coming out of the shadows.” The Democrats and pro-amnesty crowd know full well that the American people are against amnesty, hence the avoidance of the “A” word. Republicans need to develop their own immigration lexicon that cuts through this Orwellian use of language.

What Newt is pushing is amnesty. He doesn't use the word Amnesty, but neither does McCain or Obama to describe their plans. Newt's plan is to pay a fine, learn English, and legalize the status of the illegals. He doesn't include an earned path to citizenship but it is a distinction without a difference.

We had a "one-time" amnesty in 1986. It was supposed to solve the illegal immigration problem. The government estimated that 1 million would apply, but the true number turned out to be 2.7 million. We now have 12 to 20 million illegal aliens and now we are talking about a second amnesty. When you reward something, you get more of it. Newt is pandering and he is using focus tested words to fool the gulible. Any one who says that this is not amnesty doesn't know that the hell they are talking about.

The problem with letting locals judge who stays and who goes is that in certain counties in the southwest and california the locals will waive everyone through.They will become entry counties to the USA.

The problem with allowing people who have been here 25 years to remain is that these people have accumulated wealth and skills. It would be better if they return to their home country — especially Mexico to raise that country up. This will cause disruption in the USA and Mexico but in the end Mexico will be a much better neighbor as their middle class returns to bring their wealth and skills with them.

criminal background check by the police..same ones that do all the background checks. Newts plan neither affirms a guaranteed legal citizenship nor amnesty. His plan is clear. Gingrich opposed the Bush plan which I supported and believe we would not be in the mess we are in today had it passed. As for fraud it has been committed for eons...it is a beginning. We have always had visas and people from all over the work go to school here and work here as WE do in other nations around the globe. At least his program will bring some out of the closet. I KNOW the cost to round up and deport illegals and it is astronomical...you going to bus them out or fly them out? bill the nations they came from? and if you read Newts plan...he is for immediate deportation of criminal/terrorist illegals. A lot of this is intertwined with Homeland Security which is another topic

criminal background check by the police..same ones that do all the background checks.

You don't seem to understand what checks are done on intending immigrants. There are more than police checks and some are done in the country of origin. If you had taken the time to look at the link I provided by Kris Kobach you may understand the national security risks involved with giving some of these people "clean skins." I have actually issued immigrant visas.

Newts plan neither affirms a guaranteed legal citizenship nor amnesty.

Please don't insult my intelligence and say that Newt's plan is not an amnesty. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Changing the meaning of words does not change the facts. Any legislation that allows the illegal aliens to stay and work here, the object of their crime, is amnesty.

Gingrich opposed the Bush plan which I supported and believe we would not be in the mess we are in today had it passed.

Bush supported an amnesty, which would have destroyed this country with the stroke of a pen. We must not only prevent the Democrats and some moderate Republicans from hijacking the meaning of the word amnesty, but the public must be made aware about the true impact of an amnesty. The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty alone would be $2.6 trillion. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens.

Have you ever read the 2006 Hagel-Martinez or the 2007 McCain-Kennedy amnesty bills? Bush supported both. You are no conservative if you supported those bills. Newt supported the 1986 amnesty, which Rd Meese calls a mistake by Reagan.

Amnesty Will Cost U.S. Taxpayers at Least $2.6 TrillionBy Robert Rector, The Heritage Foundation

We have always had visas and people from all over the work go to school here and work here as WE do in other nations around the globe. At least his program will bring some out of the closet

Visas are the legal way to get here. You don't violate our laws and national sovereignty by sneaking into the country illegally. No country on earth tolerates that.

I KNOW the cost to round up and deport illegals and it is astronomical...you going to bus them out or fly them out?

You are creating a phony strawman. The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arizona proving that it does.

Illegal aliens cost this country over a $100 billion a year. They take jobs from Americans and depress wages. They have killed over 50,000 Americans since 9/11 and injured hundreds of thousands more. And they are changing the demographics of this country, which will have the electoral impact of making the Dems the permanent majority party.

and if you read Newts plan...he is for immediate deportation of criminal/terrorist illegals. A lot of this is intertwined with Homeland Security which is another topic

How is Newt going to deport them? There are over 2 million of them. Newt's "plan" is pure sophistry. You are defending the indefensible. I guess if you supported the Bush amnesty, you would support Newt's including his "robust guest worker program" at a time when 25 million Americans are looking for fulltime employment.

I don’t think this will hurt Newt either, but it should at least shut people up who’ve been criticizing Rick Perry for far less radical statements and actions.

Perry was pushing a plan last month that would give visas to illegals (or criminals as you and I call them) so they can freely cross back and forth across our border so it's not much better or worse.

It's annoying that all of these folks think that pandering to the illegals is going to somehow win them votes

Just another election year jerkwater seeking his fifteen minutes of fame(using the term loosely.)

The plain English meaning is clear in the written plan, which none of these posers is willing to quote. For good reason. If they quoted Newt's actual plan it would totally deflate their little weenies.