Cult! A Classic False Claim

Mormon Defense League ^ | October 9, 2011 | Mormon Defense League

[Saundra Duffy]

Some public figures have labeled the “Mormon” church as a “cult”. Most recently, ABC News reported that Dallas Pastor Robert Jeffress applied such a label in an interview following a political gathering where Jeffress introduced a political rival to Mormon candidate Mitt Romney.

Use of such a term to describe Mormonism is highly offensive to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “Cult” carries the connotation of dangerous, even violent groups whose beliefs are irrational and whose practices are immoral and lawless (Koresh and the Branch Davidians, Heaven’s Gate, Aum Shinrikyo, and The People’s Temple are all prominent examples) . The term cannot be applied to Mormons unless it is so broadly defined that its use could be applied to virtually any religious body.

Like racist language, the use of the word “cult” to describe a religion usually tells us very little about the religion, but a great deal about the person using the word. In short, it tells us only that the person using the label “cult” doesn’t like the religion in question, or thinks it is illegitimate. Bryan Wilson, a Fellow of All Souls College, Oxford, and a noted sociologist of minority religions noted:

[Saundra Duffy]

“Mormons are not Born Again Christians and therefore are damned. “

Yet another FReeper who condemns me to hell. Join the dog pile. Please note: My Judge is Jesus Christ, my Advocate with the Father - not any puny powerless human.

[Pan_Yan]

You dragged your personal vendetta onto the front page. Posting IBTZ is entirely appropriate. Whether or not they zot you is not my concern.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Pretty bold for such a n00b...***

N00b? Saundra has ben on FR for a long time!

[Mudcat]

Heh, someone called you a noob too! :D

I was one of the original 100 freepers, until I changed my userID and reset to (I think) #700-something.

Kinda weird, folks don’t seem to have much humor these days :( If they don’t “get” a sharp-witted joke like yours, they cry out for zottin’ someone.

Seriously, people, Saundra didn’t intend to convey that FR is a cult! She was JOKING! Please laugh, it feels better than stressing out. She’s earned her bones here, at least give her a break.

[djf]

it tells us only that the person using the label “cult” doesn’t like the religion in question

That’s kind of a lame and poorly thought out statement. No matter what the religion is, somebody somewhere doesn’t like it.

Does that make all religions a “cult”? I don’t think so.

Religion, IMHO, is a way for ME to make MYSELF better. Being human, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

But religion for me IS NOT a way to try to make SOMEBODY ELSE better!

Because I believe in liberty and freedom of conscience.

So to me that’s where the line is crossed. Islam is a cult. Believe it, or they will kill you. That is not about man’s relationship with God, it is strictly politics and power, man’s relationship with other men, masquerading as a religion.

[Saundra Duffy]

“. . . salivating at the chance for revenge against the LDS over the prop 8 victory in CA”

When members of the LDS Church were standing side-by-side with other Christians to pass Prop 8, I didn’t hear anyone condemning us to hell and calling us cult members. Only when it became more convenient did some of them turn on us.

[null and void]

I know...

};^P>

[nesnah]

All of us always get our gospel from a rock in a hat.

[null and void]

Heh, someone called you a noob too! :D

That I did.

It was a trick to get people to look up her sign-on date.

I'm evil that way...

[Saundra Duffy]

“Because I believe in liberty and freedom of conscience.”

Me, too. I appreciate your post.

[kosciusko51]

The problem with the word "cult" is that it has various meanings, as well as many negative connotations.

For example, if you use the look at the Online Merriam-Webster definition of a cult, you find:

Definition of CULT

1 : formal religious veneration : worship
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

One could argue that by definitions 1, 2, and 5, EVERYONE belongs to one cult or another.

But mostly what is meant in when this word is used are the negative definitions of 3, 4, and 5.

Now, to most Christian, definition 3 would be the one that is used for Mormonism, since its practices are consider unorthodox. Of course, that could be used for any sect that embraces unorthodox practices.

[Utah Binger]

[Elsie]

Use of such a term to describe Mormonism is highly offensive to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

That really breaks MY heart!

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses  5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses  8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses  8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses  10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Saundra Duffy]

Thank you. I also lead the FReepers - and others - who demonstrated at Gary Condit’s district office in Modesto - EVERY SATURDAY FOR OVER A YEAR until he got the boot!!! I have done a lot and it hurts to be kicked in the guts just because I disagree on a couple of issues.

[Saundra Duffy]

Dog pile alert.

[Elsie]

Join FR's cult, Send your money to FR, Agree with FR, or get mocked and ridiculed so you stay in line, Disagree too strongly and get excommunicated/banned.

Join JS's cult, Send your money to JS, Agree with JS, or get mocked and ridiculed so you stay in line, Disagree too strongly and get excommunicated/banned or DESTROYED!!!

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

 

51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

 

 

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Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???

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Eliza was a devout Mormon.

At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma).

In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and

knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

 

Wow!!

 

I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!

 

We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

[Saundra Duffy]

Thank you for showing up and helping to make my point.

[My hearts in London - Everett]

"carries the connotation .... groups whose beliefs are irrational. (T)ells us only that the person using the label “cult”... thinks it is illegitimate."

Yup, that about describes what I believe about Mormonism. BUT, I am always polite about my disagreement. It sounds like you're trying to pick a fight with the owner of this site, if you ask me. If the atmosphere here on FR is soooo anti-mormon as to seemingly negate in your eyes the conservative and patriotic values it promotes, why do you remain a member?

[Elsie]

Join SLC's cult, Send your money to SLC, Agree with SLC, or get mocked and ridiculed so you stay in line, Disagree too strongly and get excommunicated all because YOU have decided to actually FOLLOW the Word of the Lord found in Doctrines & Covenants 132!!

[Mudcat]

She can make whatever remark she wants. So can I. But I don't drag my personal problems out and post them on Front Page News. P.S. How you you "earn rights" around here?

I ken that you & I most likely would not have the mutual capability to carry on a coherent conversation, due to differences of an epistemological nature; however, in the interest of exploring the tailend of probabilities:

1. If Saundra had joined today, and her first comment posted was "FR could be called a cult" then one could reasonably expect a justifiable zot.

2. We ain't lookin' at situation #1...