Avery PTO (St. Louis Suburb School Ends Sponsorship of Cubs Scouts due to "social justice")

Bob Casey—Pack 303, Britt Kennedy-Troop 303, Brad Schnell, PTO liaison, and Joe Mueller from the Greater St. Louis area council represented the Boy Scouts and answered questions.

PTO members checked in at the door and received a blue card to be exchanged for a written ballot. The voting process was explained.

Issues: Executive Committee role in supervising scouting activity and concerns if this is the role of the PTO. Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts are the only organizations that the PTO charters. Issues were brought to the Exec Council this summer and the PTO Exec council did feel, at times, that a lot of our attention was needed on the scout/PTO relationship for a short period of time late last summer/early fall.

Missouri PTA/PTO statement: They offer guidelines for local PTA/PTO organizations. The recommendations are not binding. In March 2011, they suggest that PTOs/PTA’s should not charter organizations that require the PTO/PTA to make judgments or vouch for the character or morals of the other group’s members. They outline concerns with liability issues. Missouri law states that as individuals, the PTO exec board is protected. However, the funds the PTO raises are at risk. Shannon Wright pointed out that we do have a liability policy for Avery PTO.

One parent asked how Girl Scouts are differently structured. Kathleen Unwin explained that GS charters are handled through a separate non-profit; Girl Scouts of Eastern MO. Boy Scouts are governed through a congressional mandate. Marie Richter asked for clarification on the national structure versus Girl Scouts. It would literally take an act of congress to change the way it is structured.

Another parent asked if a group of Avery parents could, in theory, get together and from their own non-profit to hold the charter. The answer is yes, but, the Boy Scouts prefer a strong and established community based organization.

National policy regarding membership and leadership: One parent asked if a young boy has homosexual parents would that child be denied an opportunity to join scouts. All the adult scout leaders responded “no”. The boy could join scouts. That parent followed up with another question, is it true that if a young man is gay, he cannot be a member? Joe Mueller (Boy Scouts representative) said “no”—if a young man says he is gay, he is referred back to his parents for counseling. A gay parent, however, can participate as a parent for the scout member.

Bob Casey said as far as he is concerned, “it is like don’t ask, don’t tell”. There is no screening on the application form regarding sexual orientation. Bob stated that he would sign off and approve in this pack any application for leadership. The issue in 2000 came up because of publicity. It would not be an issue, unless said leader “preaches” about their sexual orientation to the children. The subject of sexual orientation is not in the scouting curriculum. Bob disclosed that he has been asking a lot of questions regarding sexual orientation at the local and national level.

One parent expressed the feeling that by supporting an organization that discriminates, we are, by defacto, discriminating against gays. She continued to encourage Avery to be a voice of change. There is a non-profit called “Scouting for All” and our local troop may elect to be involved in this organization. The Scout leaders said that they would need to investigate this organization.

Michelle DiMarceles (Avery staff member)—stated that national policy is in conflict with WG School. Even though the local 303 group may not discriminate, discrimination is occurring at the national organization level.

Tracy Baden (Avery Teacher) expressed concern since she is committed to social justice and feels blessed that we are at a school that embraces the concept of social justice. However, she finds it disconcerting to know that our PTO, is signing a document that identifies themselves as the sponsors of an organization that does discriminate. She, though, is supportive of the PTO and all that the organization does for Avery in general. Further, she is troubled that it does not match our district mission statement at all.

Bob Casey said, he would be willing to sign to form for a homosexual parent to be a leader. He has been really pressing people down at the local and national council. Kurt Gilker-committee member for the Scouts says we (the scouts here at Avery) are on the same side of this discrimination issue. But raised the question to see if this troop and pack is willing to be agents of change?

Bob Casey continued with the best opportunity for change being from the inside out.

Mr. Barbre (Avery teacher) stated he feels saddened that we would even tie ourselves to this organization because of the discrimination issues.

Motion moved to end discussion. Britt asked to speak on behalf of Troop 303 that consists of 28 scouts, ages 11-17 years. Talked about the positive aspects of scouting—that it teaches acceptance and tolerance for everyone. That is what they teach the boys. They share a common goal of education for our children.

Final vote: Written ballots were submitted. Rachel Hermann read the ballots. Votes were tabulated by Jeff Smith, Shannon Wright, Kathleen Unwin, and Denise Pearl.

PTO will not sign the charter. PTO sponsorship of Pack 303 and Troop 303 will end on December 31, 2011.

You don't want a PTO as a chartered organization. As a practical matter, too many members of any public school PTO have agendas that are not compatible with Scouting. How in the world is the Pack Committee going to be established and run? And continuity? We have committee members who have been members for well over 20 years.

As a legal matter, you start getting into a grey area. Does the PTO receive any public support? The reason that Exploring was moved from the Boy Scouts of America into an affiliated corporation, Learning for Life, was because Law Enforcement Career Exploring Posts and Fire & Emergency Services Career Exploring Posts were often sponsored by Police Department or Fire Departments.

The ACLU was successful in winning suits against the Departments and the BSA because of the mix of public funds and the BSA's policy that youth believe in a higher being (God - as you define him or her).

Exploring was moved into Learning for Life, which doesn't require belief in a God, and Venturing was eventually introduced into the BSA as the co-ed program for the BSA.

Somebody should have asked about how the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts differ on their treatment of leaders based on gender.

The Boy Scouts have female leaders at all levels (I know plenty of female Assistant Scoutmasters and a few female Scoutmasters, and the world is chock full of female Den Leaders, Webelos Leaders, and Cubmasters). They camp with their units.

If you're male - say, a divorced or widowed dad - and you want to be active in Girl Scouting with your daughter(s)? Good luck. They few I know who manage to fight the battle face discrimination. At summer camp, they are either herded into a building and locked in at night, or they are transported in vans in the evening to another site.

Why? Well, because you have to protect the girls from possible sexual abuse.

It doesn't matter than the Girl Scouts have openly lesbian leaders, or that there seems to be some strange hypocrisy to the idea that girls must be protected from men, but boys don't require protection from homosexual men.

The Girl Scouts are immune from criticism.

My understanding is that most of the school troops are low-income minorities.

My troop was sponsored by an elementary school PTA. We raised funds by collecting newspapers and showing movies in the cafeteria on weekends. I assure you that we had nothing like the extravagant equipment I observed at the troop my son attended at a Catholic church. The big difference was that the parents were involved to excess at the Catholic church sponsored troop. Extravagant outings with fancy gear. My own troop required the boys to do the work to finance their own outings. They were far more modest, but we never felt "entitled". We did no more than we could afford. I made Eagle in that troop as did quite a few of my peers.

Lots of things wrong with this. Starting with the title.

(St. Louis Suburb School Ends Sponsorship of Cubs Scouts due to "social justice")

The school didn't sponsor the Pack and Troop. The PTO did. It is BSA policy to not accept public schools as chartering organizations.

In March 2011, they suggest that PTOs/PTA’s should not charter organizations that require the PTO/PTA to make judgments or vouch for the character or morals of the other group’s members. They outline concerns with liability issues.

The PTA has done the same thing. The chartering organization is responsible for selecting leaders for a Scout unit and for ensuring their character and suitability for leadership. Some organizations don't feel that they can do this, or don't wish to accept the liability.

Both the BSA and the GSUSA have Congressional charters. Other than the establishment of the National organization, neither charter prescribes the structure of the underlying organization. No doubt "Girl Scouts of Eastern MO" is the local GSUSA Service Unit, repsonsible to their national organization. The local Boy Scout units fall under whatever their local Council is, which is also a not-for-profit organization and is responsible to the BSA's National Council just as the GSUSA's local Service Unit is reponsible to their national organization.

Hopefully someone connected with that Pack and Troop is aware that Federal law requires that schools receiving Federal money (certainly all public schools) cannot discriminate against youth organizations wishing to use their facilities for meetings and activities on the basis of their membership policies. In other words, the school can't tell the Scouts they can't meet there because they don't permit gays and atheists.

I had a gay leader once. He was an Eagle Scout. He came to the outings, stuck to the program, and never said "boo" about what he did when he wasn't at a Scout activity. I was glad to have him. We practice two-deep leadership very strictly, so neither he nor any other leader was left alone with any of the kids.

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