Posted on 10/18/2011 9:06:03 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
I have mostly remained silent on OWS because I think OWS has been getting a little bit of an unfair rap by right wingers and conservative talk shows. I cannot stand marxists and I especially loath the stereotypical pot smoking 60s era marxist pacifist hippie movement and anything else that even slightly resembles it...such as environmentalism.
But I am very angry about bailouts and banks and unscrupulous trading of these fraudulent securities the banks invented. I am almost as angry about these things as I am the government's role in the mess we are in.
I think OWS is not all about the hippie trash trying to destroy capitalism as most conservatives seem to think. I think that is only one of many factions participating. But I am having a hard time getting myself enthused about supporting the OWS movement because I fear that this current administration will try to use OWS as an excuse to limit/punish capitalism and capitalists even more than it is.
So why can't conservatives just take over the OWS movement rather than denounce it? Why doesn't the tea party go full force to OWS rallies and take over? Why should conservatives oppose OWS and by doing so appear to be in favor of the abuses of capitalism and the meddling of capitalism by government? It seems to me the libertarians are already there at the OWS rallies and you know damn well no libertarian will ever be in favor of marxism. If conservatives threw their weight into the OWS movement, the marxist hippies would be an insignificant minority and would no longer have any say about the movement.
alright, bud. time to calm down. I was treated the same way when I did something like that. I AINT NO noob either, so can it!
your post sparks my interest because lots of people are all of a sudden trying to conflate the tea party with this group. i don’t know you but since you ask, i’ll give you my opinion, as a tea partyer myself. your ambivalence about OWS may break down into at least four areas lacking clarity about the enemies’ purpose and operation:
1. a realization that OWS is a directed, premediated attack against us == tea party. the enemies’ strategy (obama and the republican collective ruling class) is the conflation of this movement with the tea party. they *hope* that conflation of this anarchist based movement will destroy the effectiveness of the tea party. (i’ll leave it to you to figure out why obama and the republican elite believe this and want to destroy the tea party, but the evidence for my statement is abundant in the media, just look.) so, sorry to say it, but you’re falling right into the trap the’re setting. most individuals in the tea party can smell this trap a mile a way.
2. a failure to incorporate the absolute truth of corrupt human nature properly into your thinking and the difference between correlation (a great tool of the statist) and cause and effect (a tool of popperian science, philosopy and metaphysics), generally.
3. understanding that a statist’s purpose is to *engineer* the behavior and beliefs of it’s citizens by taking advantage of corrupt human nature, untruth and the application of shear power as necessary.
putting 2 and 3 together i gather that you’re blaming the actors that the government *wants* you to blame, wall street and the bankers, but not seeing the statist behind the curtain is really pulling the strings of the individual actors on wall street. the power is really the government. the *cause* is with the government. the statist has engineered the situation where the banks and wall street *must* choose to either toe the government line or go out of business. it would be moral to refuse the money but human nature, sans morality, is too venal and corrupt to do that. it is their corrupt human nature that lets them allow themselves to be manipulated by their government masters. after a while they all become part of the same club anyway. thus for me, the bankers and wall streeters should get a measure of your pity (less your wrath) as they are the witting and unwitting slaves of the government.
4. a conflation of conservatism (which has at it’s foundation a knowledge of human nature and God’s law and morality) with libertarianism. there is no fundamental philosophical connection between the two. conservatives can ally with libertarians on only the most superficial level. usually fiscal restraint all though the mechanism for that is different for each group.
well, over long again. i’ll shut it down. hope that helps clarify.
Theft is a big problem at this Occupation Station, as well as touching, I guess: one of the general announcements was, "Keep your hands to yourself." They also wanted to relocate the General Assembly to a location a couple of blocks away, in hopes that the drunk contingent at the encampment wouldn't bother to join the meeting if they had to walk somewhere.
History is repeating itself. Woodstock is back as farce.
ping for tomorrow
Good post overall. However, some of the people sitting on the boards of these big companies actually came out of big government. They do not deserve any pity. And some may head back into big government later on when the statist winds change. Term limits would limit their power, but you still cannot assure their integrity. That is where morality must play its role.
How come nobody ever whines about all of the loans that shouldn't have been made? During the heyday of the last decade everyone was borrowing and the banks were lending. Of course now those same people that were able to finance 10 houses at a time to put $100 into them then flip, were caught naked at the end of this thing and left holding the proverbial bag.
They are probably the biggest whiners of the banks in all of this. Right behind the folks that made $20K a year and were still able to somehow get a mortgage for $300K.
too bad Alaska is on that list. I thought it was conservative?
I think anyone here can find something they agree with “Occupy Wall Street” on; I have no problem with their message that our country has been sold to foreign interests, and I have no problem with their unreported anger at Obama (who is racing to get ahead of this thing because of it).
Conservatives are foolish to lump all of these protesters together; nobody said they had to be OBAMA’S useful idiots.
The problem isn’t that it doesn’t stop with just being “wealthy”, the problem is, once you legitimize the stigma of wealth, someone ALWAYS has more than someone else.
Always.
Oil and water don’t mix. At least not when amateurs try it. The guy who infiltrated and sent reports to the FBI and the NYPD has now gotten hundreds of death threats. We are dealing with the Mob, as Ann Coulter described it in Demonic.
Let the professional undercover guys do their thing. I would not advise anyone to rush in where angels fear to tread among these savages.
Also, to tolerate and sympathize with their efforts is downright treasonous. Their goal is revolution, bloody if necessary, and the setting up of a new government on July 4th.
“So why can’t conservatives just take over the OWS movement rather than denounce it?”
Makes about as much sense as Lutherans taking over the Black Panthers.
“I am very angry about bailouts and banks and unscrupulous trading of these fraudulent securities the banks invented.”
The bailouts, at least the Bush ones, were paid back. No complaints there.
(GM is a whole different story.)
The “fraudulent securities” were, in short, invented to accommodate the fallout of the government’s insistence banks give mortgages to people who could not afford them. Intense pressure to make bad loans means bad consequences in some form; this was that form.
Wallow in the toilet with these losers? You go for it and let us know how it works out! LOL!
Why doesn’t the tea party go full force to OWS rallies and take over?
Tea Party people have to work for a living. They are not parasites like those at the demonstration.
I agree with your post except this:
“I also think we would agree on the rule of law, and that it should be applied to everyone equally, including too big to fail banks.”
Lefties by definitions don’t actually believe in the rule of law or equality before the law. They spout it, like they spout civil rights rhetoric, as a means of cloaking themselves with legitimacy. But when the rubber meets the road, they have goals such as redistributing wealth, central economic planning and other measures to create their socialist utopia: all antithetical to the rule of law.
“Some are more equal than others”
They are planning on trying to meet on July 4, 2012 to re-write the Constitution to include all kinds of new “rights”.
The “right” to a wage, whether you work or not.
The “right” to a single payer healthcare system.
It’s out there... look it up.
Isn’t that, you know, kind of treason?
Don’t be naive. You think that 3 years after the bailouts this rabble is suddenly outraged by them? OWS is a conglomeration of anarchist, communist and anti-capitalist groups who see an opportunity to promote class warfare against some of their most hated institutions, the banks, Wall Street and the “rich”. I’m sure there are a few things conservatives can get behind but they are mostly window dressing. OWS is an ANTI-AMERICAN movement that now has support from the first ANTI-AMERICAN President.
agreed. i understand your position. my pity (with a degree of loathing) for these poor souls comes from the sure knowledge that we are all corrupt and “There but for the grace of God, go I.”
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