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Norquist: 9-9-9 Isn't a Tax Hike. But...
Slate ^ | Oct. 12, 2011 | David Weigel

Posted on 10/12/2011 7:03:13 PM PDT by LonelyCon

"Now," says Norquist, "There are two or three problems with the Fair Tax." (That's the national sales tax, a replacement for all income and FICA taxes, that Cain has long supported -- it's the eventual goal of 9-9-9.) "Because there is a transition period of some length with any tax phase-in, the fear that people have about the sales tax is that, at some point, Democrats win the House or the Presidency, and you get stuck with both the income tax and the new sales tax. Under 9-9-9 they deliberately set up a time period where you have three taxes. They say they are doing what some of us have feared could happen. Even if you say the income tax is going away, there's a chance of getting both."

Second problem: The sales tax has proven to be a "political loser" when torn apart in the heat of a campaign.

Third problem: "Let's say you're 20 years old. You don't care what tax you pay -- you haven't paid any yet. But if I'm 65, I've spent my whole life paying income taxes. I'm about to stop paying them. What's the benefit to me if you bring on a sales tax? Thanks -- you've just made every retired person's pension 33 percent less valuable."

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 999; cain; norquist
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To: annelizly

9-9-9 has nothing to do with state sales taxes or state income taxes. We live in a federal system; each state sets its own sales taxes and income taxes.


21 posted on 10/12/2011 8:05:21 PM PDT by kevao
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To: LonelyCon
If you raise people’s income tax, they see a giant change on April 15 and they get pissed.

Bullcrap.

If people had to pull out the checkbook and pay it all at once, you would have a point. But when it is "withheld", you never even feel it. Having it felt at the point of purchase would be more painful than it is right now.

In fact, most people get all excited about "a big tax refund!", like they haven't been screwed out of interest when the government took and held too much from them.

22 posted on 10/12/2011 8:12:38 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: LonelyCon
Photobucket
23 posted on 10/12/2011 8:16:40 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: annelizly

It’s on TOP of the state, city, county, local, etc sales taxes. Some locations, people could end up paying 20% sales tax on their purchases.


24 posted on 10/12/2011 8:17:48 PM PDT by MissouriConservative (Perry 2012)
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To: LonelyCon
I would like to see the income tax totally repealed BEFORE instituting any form of the flat, or fair tax.

Insofar as Cain's 9-9-9 plan and Michelle Bachmann's remark about turning it upside-down (quite a gaff from the Congresswoman), here's the one who wears the 6-6-6...

OBAMA666
25 posted on 10/12/2011 8:18:10 PM PDT by FrankR (What you resist...PERSISTS!)
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To: LonelyCon
But if I'm 65, I've spent my whole life paying income taxes. I'm about to stop paying them. What's the benefit to me if you bring on a sales tax? Thanks -- you've just made every retired person's pension 33 percent less valuable."

Duh! This is something I've been saying. And seniors vote. Just wait until they find out Cain wants these people, who have been taxed all their lives, on their earnings, their investments, their savings, that now Cain wants them to pony up again--30% more! Yeah right!

9-9-9 is absolutely toxic. The sooner WE accept that, the better. I know it's nice to chug kool-aid and tell yourself Cain is the One, since Palin isn't the One, and last time Fred Thompson wasn't the One. It's easy to deny reality. But reality will win in the end. Better to face it square on.

26 posted on 10/12/2011 8:22:40 PM PDT by Huck (NO FEDERAL SALES TAX -- UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES)
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To: refermech
You can buy used stuff and save a ton!

If the cost of new stuff goes up 30%, why wouldn't sellers of used stuff raise their prices? Hmmmmm?

How about this? Instead of living in your fantasy world of unicorns and moonbeams, show me a place where a 30% consumption tax is in place and working.

27 posted on 10/12/2011 8:24:13 PM PDT by Huck (NO FEDERAL SALES TAX -- UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

I agree. A much simpler, less controversial way to deal with taxation is to make everyone do what I do: pay quarterly taxes. Let everyone keep all their earnings, and then write a check four times a year. That will set the table for real reform. And that’s for ALL fed taxes, including entitlement taxes.


28 posted on 10/12/2011 8:26:29 PM PDT by Huck (NO FEDERAL SALES TAX -- UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

That’s a plan! (It would actual turn things around)


29 posted on 10/12/2011 8:28:02 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: LonelyCon

Cain should not have come out with a specific plan because the vast majority won’t understand it and sure as hell won’t get a real explanation from the MSM


30 posted on 10/12/2011 8:36:52 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: LonelyCon

It’s a question of what kind of country and economy and standard of living they would like their grandchildren to have.

Our current system shackles both domestic production and domestic capital formation.

By favoring foreign production of goods and imports with impoverishing huge trade imbalances, we have created a vicious circle of eroding our domestic manufacturing base and enabling capital formation in foreign countries, which then is recycled through ownership and credit interests by foreign entities in our businesses and government.

Our high borrowing and consumption and abysmal savings rates is precipitating a collapse in living standard and an inability to fund future pension and healthcare costs.

If they care at all about their grandchildren, they will work to create a new system which creates domestic jobs and incentivizes savings and capital formation.


31 posted on 10/12/2011 8:39:07 PM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: annelizly

In other words, it’s in ADDITION to state sales taxes. And this is a “conservative” touting this nonsense.


32 posted on 10/12/2011 8:44:00 PM PDT by Huck (NO FEDERAL SALES TAX -- UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES)
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To: LonelyCon

If that is your reason for not liking the FairTax, then you are flawed in your thinking.

The income tax has been increased little by little incrementally after each of the 5 major tax reforms since 1913. The rate creeps up and if it doesn’t then inflation moves more people into higher brackets which accomplishes the same thing as moving rates up.

So the income tax is deceptive, smoke and mirrors. And yes some people can be ticked off when they see their taxes go up but the tax policymakers can manipulate which groups get hit and which don’t, setting groups against each other.

According to the proposed FairTax legislation, the rate must be voted on each year by Congress. It will be there for all to see and yes Congress can raise it a little at a time but it will be for all to see, Congress won’t be able target certain groups, it’s much fairer that way.


33 posted on 10/12/2011 8:55:00 PM PDT by Hostage (The revolution needs a spark. The Constitution is dead.)
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To: LonelyCon

I don’t either but the country started out with sales and excise, duty taxes. Never an income tax..so any big reduction in that is a very good thing.


34 posted on 10/12/2011 8:58:13 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: LonelyCon

Norquist would much rather have shariah and have YOU paying jizya. Anything he says is suspect.


35 posted on 10/12/2011 8:59:19 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: Repeal The 17th

1-2-3 on 9-9-9

1. It’s great economically OVERALL.
Art Laffer endorsed it. It will cut tax complaince dramatically and make USA more competitive.
2. It will have winners and losers.
For working taxpayers with middle or upper incomes - a plus.
For retirees who are done making money - a minus.
3. If there are millions of losers in the low-income retirees category ... it WILL NOT PASS. Santorum may be right. It will be demagogued to death.


36 posted on 10/12/2011 9:12:10 PM PDT by WOSG (“Legion of Acceptibility”)
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To: LonelyCon

I learned a long time ago never to put any credence in the words of a guy named Grover.


37 posted on 10/12/2011 9:19:53 PM PDT by Antoninus (Take the pledge: I will not vote for Mitt Romney under any circumstances. EVER.)
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To: RightFighter
Simple - you put 9-9-9 in the Constitution but include a provision that says it can be temporarily raised in times of national emergency by a 2/3 or 3/4 vote of both houses of Congress.

Sorry, I know you're enthusiastic and trying to make this work, but I just don't think it could. First of all, we don't have 2/3 of Congress and certainly not 3/4 of states willing to put this into the Constitution. Even if we did, how would you define a national emergency? War, terror attack, depression, natural disaster, government shutdown, general strike? Would it have to affect the whole nation or just part of it? Who would decide what constitutes a national emergency? And what is temporary? Two weeks, four years, the duration of the emergency? And who decides that? These are not the types of things constitutions are made for. They are made to create a system of government, not to actually do the governing and set policy (i.e. tax rates).
38 posted on 10/12/2011 9:56:55 PM PDT by LonelyCon
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To: LonelyCon

FUGN!

YOu fat pig at the trough of real Americans.

You and your College Republican brethern are pond scum.

GTH.


39 posted on 10/12/2011 10:10:38 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome
You and your College Republican brethern are pond scum.

Herman Cain talks about the College Republicans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh0E3B9sU1Q
40 posted on 10/12/2011 10:30:16 PM PDT by LonelyCon
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