Norquist: 9-9-9 Isn't a Tax Hike. But...

Slate ^ | Oct. 12, 2011 | David Weigel

[LonelyCon]

"Now," says Norquist, "There are two or three problems with the Fair Tax." (That's the national sales tax, a replacement for all income and FICA taxes, that Cain has long supported -- it's the eventual goal of 9-9-9.) "Because there is a transition period of some length with any tax phase-in, the fear that people have about the sales tax is that, at some point, Democrats win the House or the Presidency, and you get stuck with both the income tax and the new sales tax. Under 9-9-9 they deliberately set up a time period where you have three taxes. They say they are doing what some of us have feared could happen. Even if you say the income tax is going away, there's a chance of getting both."

Second problem: The sales tax has proven to be a "political loser" when torn apart in the heat of a campaign.

Third problem: "Let's say you're 20 years old. You don't care what tax you pay -- you haven't paid any yet. But if I'm 65, I've spent my whole life paying income taxes. I'm about to stop paying them. What's the benefit to me if you bring on a sales tax? Thanks -- you've just made every retired person's pension 33 percent less valuable."

[LonelyCon]

This is my only problem with Cain right now. I do not like the idea of a national sales tax at all.

[Repeal The 17th]

Are you worried about how it effects you personally, or the country generally?

[Perdogg]

I would gladly pay a 9% GST in exchange for a MTR of 9%.

[refermech]

You can buy used stuff and save a ton!

[Flightdeck]

I’d like to see the calculation behind the “33% less valuable” claim. Either way, seniors, you’re gonna have to re-equilibrate your perspective. Medicare and SS are destroying the country. They must be reformed.

[LonelyCon]

For the country generally. It’s all too easy to raise a sales tax. If you raise people’s income tax, they see a giant change on April 15 and they get pissed. But if you just raise the sales tax a half a percent or so every couple of years, no one cares. “Just a few pennies or dollars more on every little purchase, what’s the big deal, right?”, most people think if they notice the change at all.

[LonelyCon]

You can buy used stuff and save a ton!

What a great idea for creating jobs! Why hasn't any candidate run with your slogan?

[D-fendr]

The sales tax in Texas now is about 400% of what they swore it would never go above to when it was instituted.

[Repeal The 17th]

I suppose if congress included in the bill to require a 3/4 majority to raise the tax and a simple majority to lower the tax that you would still oppose?

[JosephMama]

All these “older tax payers” are sickening in how they feel that they should have nothing cut or made more difficult on them since they’ve been paying taxes all there life. I’m in my mid twenties and have been paying medicare and social security taxes for 9 years. I’ll never see a penny of that money and its all going to fund these liabilities.

Privatize social security, eliminate Medicare. Implement Cain’s plan!

[reefdiver]

Why not put out some projections of taxes paid now against what Cain is proposing at various incomes and let the voters have a look?

[LonelyCon]

I suppose if congress included in the bill to require a 3/4 majority to raise the tax and a simple majority to lower the tax that you would still oppose?

That's a procedural impossibility. One Congress cannot restrict the actions of a future Congress. All a future Congress would have to do to raise taxes would be to, by simple majority, repeal the 3/4 requirement and then, by simple majority, raise the tax. The only way to restrict the action of Congress is by constitutional amendment.

[Repeal The 17th]

I am also of the belief that a national sales tax would require a constitutional amendment.

[aimhigh]

I am also of the belief that a national sales tax would require a constitutional amendment.

I'd want the 9-9-9 to be in the constitution to prevent it from becoming 12-12-12. After the next Republican president, the pendulum will shift back to the Dems at some point.

[LonelyCon]

I'd want the 9-9-9 to be in the constitution to prevent it from becoming 12-12-12.

And that is a recipe for absolute disaster. When WWIII breaks out and the government needs money to build ships and buy bullets and whatever else, do you really want to wait on a constitutional amendment to raise taxes to pay for the war? What if some of the state legislatures are filled with appeasers and refuse to vote for a tax increase because they know they can stop the war that way. Sorry, but I think that's a really dumb idea.

[stefanbatory]

I’ve been buying used stuff and saving a ton for years...but some people are too brainwashed into “needing” new stuff to try it for themselves. I do believe that I will still need to purchase new toilet paper, though...a tradeoff I am willing to make in exchange for having much more take home pay with which to purchase it.

[annelizly]

Pardon my ignorance because i haven’t read up on 9-9-9 but is the 9% national sales tax in ADDITION to state sales tax? or does it replace it?

[Logical me]

You can buy used stuff and save a ton!

The price of used stuff will go up. Have you tried to buy a used car lately?

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

What's the benefit to me if you bring on a sales tax? Thanks -- you've just made every retired person's pension 33 percent less valuable."

Okay so we drop the sales tax, and settle on 9-9, abolish social security and medicare. :-)

[RightFighter]

Simple - you put 9-9-9 in the Constitution but include a provision that says it can be temporarily raised in times of national emergency by a 2/3 or 3/4 vote of both houses of Congress.