Replies

To be fair Churchill was speaking of his own time.

Germany as created in 1870 was truly speaking the Prussian Empire extended over Germany.

It imposed the Prussian tyranny and brute force over lands that had not known it -- indeed the differences between the Prussians and say the Bavarians still exist and the western Germans were different. The Germans of pre-Prussian era (before the 30-years war) were cultured, scholarly etc., quite unlike our image of Germans which is really the Prussian image

Germans of today are also quite removed from both the Prussians and the previous Germanics.

Similarly the English of today are unlike the English of Churchill's day. IMHO, if the English of today were to build Europe it would be squalor and communism-lite (English socialism). The Russians would impost tyranny and brute force. The Germans would just be obnoxious boors.

Europe united as a federacy that does not fight each other makes sense, but it should not be led by any one country.

To be fair Churchill was speaking of his own time.

Germany as created in 1870 was truly speaking the Prussian Empire extended over Germany.

It imposed the Prussian tyranny and brute force over lands that had not known it -- indeed the differences between the Prussians and say the Bavarians still exist and the western Germans were different. The Germans of pre-Prussian era (before the 30-years war) were cultured, scholarly etc., quite unlike our image of Germans which is really the Prussian image.

Germans of today are also quite removed from both the Prussians and the previous Germanics.

Similarly the English of today are unlike the English of Churchill's day. IMHO, if the English of today were to build Europe it would be squalor and communism-lite (English socialism). The Russians would impost tyranny and brute force. The Germans would just be obnoxious boors.

Europe united as a federacy that does not fight each other makes sense, but it should not be led by any one country.

I see you don't know the European Union. It's a product of Churchill's time. It's not a "federacy" at all—it's an empire, and a highly oligarchic one at that, that's been out to destroy basic rights (such as habeas corpus for example). Europe united means a war footing, and always has.

"It imposed the Prussian tyranny and brute force over lands that had not known it -- indeed the differences between the Prussians and say the Bavarians still exist and the western Germans were different.The Germans of pre-Prussian era (before the 30-years war) were cultured, scholarly etc., quite unlike our image of Germans which is really the Prussian image" Actually, the 30-years war ended in 1648, the first Prussian King(Frederic I) was crowned in 1701 and before that it was a fairly average duchy in the grand scheme of the Holy Roman Empire. And nobody would have used the terms 'cultured and scholarly' after the horrors of the 30-years war which killed 1/3 of the German population. Germany back then was regarded as a fairly backwards and barbaric cesspool with constant wars and strife between all the little nations, duchies, fiefdoms and city states. Or with the words of Charles V 'I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse' which was later changed by Frederic II 'I speak French to my ambassadors, English to my accountant, Italian to my mistress, Latin to my God and German to my horse' Only after 1740 with the coronation of his grandson Frederic II and the Silesian Wars did Prussia became a hegemonic power in Europe. And Frederic II was also one of the first 'enlightened' monarchs in Europe and was a big advocate of religious tolerance, freedom of speech, independence of court of justice, he strengthened the rights of his commoners and limited the powers of his nobles, all that some time before the french and american revolutions. And the image of germany as a cultured and scholarly people probably started with Frederic II, he spoke several languages fluently, was an accomplished philosopher and historian and invited the brightest thinkers of his time to Potsdam and his academies. He reformed and modernized the state and was one of the first nations to introduced state funded schools and education and literacy became widely spread and was later copied by many nations. Sure Prussia was never squeamish in using military power to accomplish their national interests but 'tyranny' isn't the first trait I would associate with Prussia and for sure not in the context of "over lands that had not known it" most monarchs and their nobles of this time were a lot more autocratic and abusive with their powers. The Prussians were protestants and the Bavarians were catholics and close allies of the Austro-Hungarian empire which were the other big fish in the pond and both empires struggled for centuries over the predominance over the other German states, so no wonder there were big cultural differences. 'The greatest and noblest pleasure which men can have in this world is to discover new truths; and the next is to shake off old prejudices.' 'All religions must be tolerated...for...every man must get to heaven in his own way' 'My people and I have come to an agreement which satisfied us both. They are to say what they please, and I am to do what I please. ' Frederic II