NTSB: Plane that crashed at air race had camera

AP ^ | 9-18-2011

[Petruchio]

RENO, Nevada (AP) — A World War II-era plane had a video camera facing outward, and memory cards were found at the scene where it crashed near a grandstand in Reno. It raises the possibility of video of the crash that killed nine, including the pilot.

[snip]

[driftdiver]

Thanks, that seems to make sense with the available information.

[driftdiver]

From what I’ve read the handling is due to the very powerful engine that they didn’t know how to handle.

[Zuriel]

With your experience with warbirds, do you think that the tailwheel may have extended itself because of the high Gs, or possibly some stress on some component in the rear of the fuselage caused some damage, such as dropping the wheel and maybe something snaring the ‘upper’ elevator cable, putting additional aft pull on it.

Losing the trim tab would seem to be cause for trouble at that speed, but why it pulled up seems counter to the function it was performing.

[kik5150]

Race pilots are trained to grab altitude in the event of engine/mechanical failure, which might explain the abrupt climb. However, it does not appear that there was any further pilot input afterwards. I don’t see how a detached trim tab can cause this result, unless it was in full deflection and instantaneously exited the aircraft. I have seen the picture of the aircraft where you cannot see the pilot in the canopy. Could a high-G maneuver break the seat, or could a broken seat cause the pilot to pull back into a high-G maneuver? At this point it is only speculation.

-former F1 owner

[PiperShade]

Can’t say as I agreed with your assessment ! The mods- as described - would have made the aircraft “less, rather than more” responsive to pilot input in the roll axis IMO. IAC, Its not evident what role - if any - the mods had in the accident at this time. The loss of the elevator trim tab I’d see as even less of a “problem” as I’ll bet a lot the aircraft was weight balanced to minimize “trim drag” in race configuration.

That said, its all - including my conclusions/suppositions - is “up for grabs”, at this point !

A real “plus” for the NTSB is they had personnel on site ! Its also rumored there’s on-board video chips and telemetry that may have survived the crash.

I think it imperitive we all remember this the first NAR incident - in over 45 years - involving spectators ! All - any - of us attending any sort of racing event assume some element of risk ! Its printed on the ticket stub ! >PS

[cynwoody]

As has been reported this plane has been highly modified with the wings being recently shortened 5 feet per side plus trimming of the tail section for additional air speed.

The pilot discusses the modifications:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXu2GfT9WcI

[Talisker]

A friend of mine sent me some pictures of the plane showing what appears to be the pilot slumped over in the seat...

Then he's got pictures that conflict mightily with others, because they show NO PILOT.

5-point harness, pilot could be dead and he'd still be strapped in place, and therefore be fully visible. But - no pilot in these pictures. How?

And...

No fire? (yes he minimized his fuel load for weight purposes while racing. but the race wasn't over yet, and he still had enough fuel to fly and race. So why didn't it burn? And why were victims and spectators covered with dust, instead of fuel?)

Reno (yesterday, P-51):

West Virgina (today, T-28):

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

I don't think the FAA is going to chalk this up to "risks borne by spectators present."

My guess is the FAA will declare the Reno air races too dangerous to continue and I happen to agree with that.

If a sport is so dangerous as to be regularly fatal to competitors and/or spectators, it should not be sanctioned.

Fatality of pilots in wartime is a necessary risk and result. The death of pilots as a consequence of "sport" is akin to gladiator barbarism.

[LasVegasMac]

It also appears the pilot is directing the plane away from the grandstand. Its highly doubtful he passed out.

My son showed me one pic of the plane going straight up - no pilot visible.

Was he bent over that far forward? Didn't think the harness would let you do that.

Or was he slumped in the seat?

Absolutely no sign of a pilot. Very Strange.

[MediaMole]

He apparently lost one elevator trim tab, which could affect roll. The elevators normally work together, but without a trim tab, one side of the tail will have more lift than the other, leading to roll. There are trim tabs on both sides of the elevator, and he lost one. It could induce roll.

[MediaMole]

The canopy on Galloping ghost is as small as physically possible. The pilot’s head is barely visible under normal circumstances.

Here’s a photo from better times that shows how small the canopy is and how the pilot’s head looks.

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Galloping_Ghost_25.jpg

[Atlas Sneezed]

47 years without hurting any spectators...

---

Maybe for a small-town, one-weekend-a-year event, we need to look at more meaningful numbers than total fatalities.

17 participant fatalities in those 47 weekends.

[tlb]

>>> If a sport is so dangerous as to be regularly fatal to competitors and/or spectators, it should not be sanctioned.

In just the last two months over half a dozen high school football players training for the season have died. Do we abolish football?

[SaxxonWoods]

There is a photo at Liveleak showing the plane on the runway prior to takeoff. Angle of view from the side, pilot quite visible. Two later photos show the cockpit quite well and no shape rises above the lower edge. One of those photos is taken from the same angle as the runway photo, just from the opposite direction.

It’s very odd.

[LibertyRocks]

I agree. When I saw the video and how fast the plane was going, I remarked to myself that at least it was over quick. Also the fact that there was no fire, and no-one burned is still amazing to me.

[no-s]

I notice on the picture that the tailwheel seems to be down. Anyone care to speculate on why?

forced out by G-force and/or vibration from flutter, probably. The doors look wrong.

[no-s]

I notice on the picture that the tailwheel seems to be down. Anyone care to speculate on why?

forced out by G-force and/or vibration from flutter, probably. The doors look wrong.

[tophat9000]

It has happen before and the pilot was luck to come out alive

http://www.warbird.com/voodoo.html

In the '98 unlimited championship the highly modified P51 for racing "Voodoo" ...

left elevator trim tab came off the airplane at speed, causing the bird to abruptly pitch up, subjecting driver Hannah to over 10 G's of deceleration forces, and causing him to lose conciousness! When he came to, the raceplane had climbed to over 9,000 feet of altitude. A shaken Hannah regained control and brought Voodoo in for a safe landing.

[Talisker]

The canopy on Galloping ghost is as small as physically possible. The pilot’s head is barely visible under normal circumstances.

Nice try, but it won't work. 5-point harness and all that. Something VERY strange was going on.

Head:

Head:

Head:

Head:

Head:

NO Head (crash dive):

P.S. This last picture with an empty canopy was all over the web, now it is being scrubbed from Google.

[LibertyRocks]

On another thread someone who seemed to know planes (maybe even this one itself) said the plane was designed to disintegrate upon impact, thus minimizing the loss of life and the lack of fire. I don’t know anything about this, but thought you should know there was discussion of the lack of fire and no big debris somewhere in these threads.