Posted on 09/12/2011 7:14:30 AM PDT by newzjunkey
Broadcast on: CNN
Broadcast time: 8pm EDT/5pm PDT
The Candidates:
Michele Bachmann
Bachmann is serving her 3rd full term in the U.S. House. Founder of the House Tea Party Caucus, she earned a Master of Laws degree, worked as a tax attorney, and was a foster mother for 23 teenagers. She is a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
Herman Cain
Cain is the former chief executive of Godfather's Pizza and former chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. He lost the Georgia Republican primary for a U.S. Senate seat in 2004. He was recently the host of Atlanta-based radio show.
Newt Gingrich
Gingrich served as Speaker of the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. He represented Georgia's 6th congressional district as a Republican member from 1979 to 1999. He has a PhD in modern European history.
Jon Huntsman
Huntsman was Utah Governor, former ambassador to China under Barack Obama.
Ron Paul
Paul is serving his 11th full term in the U.S. House. He’s an ob-gyn and was Libertarian nominee for president in 1988. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination for president in 2008
Rick Perry
Perry is the three term governor of Texas, from 2000 to current. He is a retired Air Force captain for former farmer. He has a degree in animal science.
Mitt Romney
Romney was governor of Massachusetts (2003 to 2007) and former CEO of Bain Capital, a private equity investment firm. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican 2008 nomination for president. He has an MBA (Harvard) and JD (Harvard Law).
Rick Santorum
Santorum served two terms in the U.S. House and two terms in the U.S. Senate. He became the Senate's third-ranking Republican in 2001. He was defeated for reelection in 2006.
I don't know what makes you think that? While she was Governor, Gardisil was added to Alaska's immunization program, and they even accepted federal dollars to help pay for Gardisil vaccines for children.
What she apparently DIDN'T do was make it a mandatory vaccine for school attendance. I agree with that. But Merck stopped asking states to do Gardisil stuff in like February of 2007. So she didn't have to fight them off very long. Merck Ending Lobbying for mandatory Gardasil Vaccine -- February 27, 2007.
Palin took office in December of 2006, so they only had about two months to ask her to put it on the list. I think Palin said she had some e-mails about it, maybe someone could dig them up and post them, that would be enlightening.
But like I said, it is clear Palin wasn't opposed to Gardasil, or even to taxpayer funding for Gardasil (which also enriched Merck). We know that because we have seen links to the actual Alaska Government web pages that tout the programs, from late 2008 early 2009, while Sarah Palin was still governor.
Anyway, government decides all sorts of things it thinks is best for your child, and yes, they all infringe on your rights. You have to use a child safety seat in your car. You can't opt out of that one either. You will get a ticket, and CPS might come after you. Sarah Palin never spoke out against that mandate, nor has ANY conservative I've ever seen speak out against that.
So don't pretend conservatives are universally against any government law that mandates ANY action by parents. We are more or less opposed in general to these things, but we accept a lot of them without question or complaint.
At least with school vaccine requirements, some states have opt-out procedures, and Texas was one of those so PARENTS HAD THAT FINAL SAY in whether their kids got vaccinated or not. That is explicitly stated in Perry's EO.
Unless Michelle Bachman is on record for ending school-required vaccination programs, and lifting the car seat requirements, and the mandatory testing hospitals have to perform on newborns, she has no leg to stand on complaining about Perry adding ONE vaccine to the list on those grounds.
Her problem is the nature of the Gardasil vaccine, not some grand principle that government should never tell us anything about how to raise our children.
Maybe she will post links to the e-mails she was talking about.
Now show me where Palin signed an Executive Order saying it was mandatory.
She didn't.
She put the choice in the hands of Alaskans at no cost to the state.
“We NEVER had our hands over hearts when singing the Anthem - all these years.
And I’ve lived from NY, to MD, to NM, to CA, and we NEVER did this.
This phony stuff started when pictures of Obama doing the ‘crotch’ shot were published.
If Obama’s hand was not over his heart when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, then that is wrong. It is not wrong, however, to then drop the hand when singing, or listening to the Anthem.
I think people wanted to show what an idiot Obama was for not having his hand over his heart, but it’s not necessary - we have other proof of that!
I am not aware the ‘rule’ was changed - was there a memo I missed?!”
Not sure if it was because my Dad was a lifer in the Air Force, the schools that I went to (most were near military bases) or ?? but I don’t remember not doing so. I’ve lived in several states as well and have put my hand over my heart for the National Anthem for as long as I can remember as has my sister; and, we taught my nephew to do the same when he was very small.
OK, my apologies then.
“I believe with all my heart that the Supreme Court is the most precious, most critical possession our Republic has for survival. Look at the ages and health of its justices. Should make us all shudder. I fear that another 4 years of Obama will see the court lost and along with it our Republic as we know it.”
There are too many bad things a defective Republican (like Romney) can do to the country. Your concern about the SCOTUS is noted, but you should consider that the solution there isn’t who is POTUS but who is in control of the Senate. If we can rid the Senate of RINO’s and then get a majority....not even Obama can put through a justice that doesn’t meet muster.
For my part....any of the current persons running except (Romney, Paul, and Huntsman) can get my support in a general election. However, I will NEVER vote for those three....it will destroy conservatism worse than any poor SCOTUS. True and total conservatism (morale, social, fiscal) is the solution to this countries problems. Settling for a wishy washy GOP candidate to simply get rid of Obama is just not wise. Sounds pragmatic, but it is a road to disaster.
Do you know what the word request means?
I looked through the various state information I could find on the web, and found no indication that the total number of slots open at the public texas schools for in-state tuition were limited. Doesn’t mean they weren’t, just that I can’t find any indication that Texas schools are full-up and have no extra in-state slots.
Illegals have always been allowed to attend college, so if it was simply “in-state slots”, they could take them anyway. If they were paying out-of-state tuition, they might be counted as “out-of-state” slots so they wouldn’t then take up in-state slots.
The cost is an interesting question as well. If they actually bump other students, so that there is no additional total in-state population in school, then they have no monetary cost, because any student in that slot would have cost the same. If the schools are underpopulated and not turning down any in-state person, then they don’t have a large real cost, since it doesn’t cost anything to put another person in an empty seat (there is an “opportunity” cost if you ASSUME that in the absense of the in-state program, they would have paid out-of-state tuition. On the other hand, if you assume they wouldn’t have gone at all, you might actually LOSE money if you canceled the program, because there would be empty seats where you used to have partially-paying students).
In Virginia, we certainly have a limit; and they somewhat control that by region, so it can be hard to get into some of the schools if you live in a “smarter” part of the state since competition is more fierce. Of course, we don’t allow in-state tuition for illegals.
But not every state has an in-state public system that is so good that people have to fight to get into it. I happen to think that Virginia has one of the best in-state school systems in the country, with several top-20 schools.
I’ve looked at several articles that were complaining about the in-state Texas tuition program for illegals. One talked about lawsuits. In none of those articles did they mention having a plaintiff who was a resident of the state DENIED in-state tuition because all the slots were full. If there was such a person, you would expect the lawyers fighting this would have used them — especially since they tried using out-of-state students and were dismissed because the out-of-state students couldn’t prove any actual harm (since they wouldn’t get in-state tuition anyway).
So, by inference from everything I’ve read, I believe that at this time, the illegals getting in-state tuition are NOT bumping citizens of Texas from in-state tuition. If you find a link showing that they are being bumped, I will be enlightened.
42.043. RULES FOR IMMUNIZATIONS.That's not easy. Not easy at all. And I will tell YOU why it is not easy. Please pay full attention as I get to it. When you said "this isn't a hard process" YOU were saying something EASY. It's easy for you to say, but you aren't putting yourself it the shoes of others to so say. That is clear.(d) No immunization may be required for admission to a facility regulated under this chapter if a person applying for a child's admission submits one of the following affidavits:
(1) an affidavit signed by a licensed physician stating that the immunization poses a significant risk to the health and well-being of the child or a member of the child's family or household; or
(2) an affidavit signed by the child's parent or guardian stating that the applicant declines immunization for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief.
It is clear because a conscientious parent, one with moral scruples and a seriousness about what religion and true conscience means will have trouble writing an affidavit attesting to having "reasons of conscience" for objecting to to the vaccine. Why? Because it is likely they have no religious objections to the concept of vaccines, or even of the public health requirements that do indeed give rational public purpose to some vaccines -- such as polio up until very recently, as polio was a true contagious hazard to all. Polio at least until recent years when it is a disease that is so rare that a vaccine for it approaches no longer being for any purpose.
For such truly conscientious folks it is very hard to solemnly swear to a "conscientious objection" of a religious sort. Their objections may be strictly ad-hoc to this particular vaccine, and they object to the State's given rationale for the need to vaccinate. That's a policy objection, not one of conscience.
Yet to such folks HONESTY is paramount. Filing an objection as a "conscientious objection" is simply untrue, so honest are they, so committed to honesty.
IN YOUR GLIBNESS YOU DEMAND that they be dishonest. That's mean. That's ignorant of you. Callous. Glib. Disrespectful of others.
IT WAS LOUSY, UTTERLY LOUSY PUBLIC HEALTH POLICY TO MANDATE THIS VACCINE, and to burden some of the most morally conscientious with a morally compromising opt-out provision.
As Chief Executive of the Republic of Texas, Perry made a number of significant more mistakes in this matter. Mistakes that speak to his nature as a leader and executive, and how he regards the rights and authority of parents, and from that how he regards the public and their independence as adults making adult decisions.
Nor has he apologized for or regretted some of those key mistakes.
Charles, there is no long term study on the efficacy or safety of Gardasil because there is no population group who were vaccinated long enough ago.
And Charles there was no mandate sending your rafting or joining the boy scouts.
BTW, have you vaccinated your son with Gardasil? If not why not?
You quoted one part of an “or” clause. The first part quoted isn’t that “easy”, unless of course you didn’t mind vaccines, but when you went to get the vaccine, the doctor noted that you were allergic and therefore shouldn’t take it, and then it’s easy.
The SECOND clause is relatively easy. You get the form, you fill it out, you sign it in front of a notary, you mail it in, and you are exempt.
And IF the EO had gone into force, it called for an EASIER process, which would put the exemption itself online.
If you only pay attention to half of something, you don’t get the full picture.
Neither of my kids have received a Gardasil vaccination. I opposed mandatory Gardasil vaccinations in my state.
You were equating a vaccine in general with specific actions taken every time you did something. They are not comparable in any way. Gee, I even specifically included that some vaccines have to be repeated, and maybe need boosters later on.
You seemed to be hung up on “mandatory” things. If you are only hung up on “mandatory” Gardisil vaccines, you should make that explicit. You gave what you thought was an audacious analogy of mandating life vests, so I pointed out that the Boy Scouts of America mandate life vests, and they don’t appear to be evil.
And you don’t HAVE to send your kids to public school either, you can opt-out in several ways, including home schooling. And in Texas, you don’t HAVE to get vaccines, you just file for an exemption.
Yes, it means to ask for something.
Like, you can go to the bank and request a withdrawal. Do you believe that means the bank can tell you no? You can request a receipt for your purchase? Do you think that means the store thinks about it and decides if they want to honor your request?
You have to REQUEST an opt-out. If you request it, you get it. But you have to request it — you don’t get an opt-out if you don’t request an opt-out.
Wow. I didn’t realize you had hung your entire argument on a misunderstanding of the concept of “requesting” something.
Would you have been unconfused if they had called it a “demand” instead of a request? because demands can still be rejected as well.
You would have avoided making such a fundamental mistake if you had just taken the time to find out what the request process was, then you would have known that approval was automatic so long as the request form was properly filled out and notarized.
Anyway, now that we’ve cleared up that confusion, you won’t have to make the same mistake again. Glad to be of service.
Your son been innoculated with Gardasil yet?
Why not Charles? It seems a bit odd that you spend time here defending the efficacy of Gardasil while keeping it out of your children. What is it Charles? Gardasil is good for thee but not fo me kind of thing?
I didn’t defend the efficacy of Gardasil. That’s for medical professionals to do. I opposed mandatory vaccination for Gardasil. My daughter will make her own decision — she’s 18 now. I’ve told my kids about STDs, and they have a choice as to how to use that information.
I have no idea if Gardasil is good for others. I urge everybody though to NOT take thier medical advice from a politician with a LAW DEGREE, or anonymous internet posters, but to talk to their own physician. Gardasil shows every sign of being very helpful to the prevention of certain disease, and people shouldn’t reject it because they don’t like Rick Perry.
Straw man argument. Nobody said she mandated it. I said a program started under her watch that provides taxpayer funded Gardasil shots to innocent young girls.
So apparently she doesn’t agree with Michelle Bachmann that offering Gardasil to our kids is like a sexual assault, or that it sentences them to a lifetime of mental retardation.
Palin seems to believe it is right for the Federal Government, and her State Government, to use taxpayer dollars to provide vaccines against STDs. I agree with her, but some here have been fighting that aspect of the issue.
And since the taxpayer dollars go to Merck, it’s clear that Merck benefits from the program put in place in Alaska. She didn’t get a donation from them that I can find. But she certainly didn’t throw them out of her office and refuse to allow any tax dollars to go to their company for the vaccine.
The fact sheet shows that Alaska had no qualms about providing the shots to all their children. I agree with the argument against a mandatory Gardasil vaccine, but I’m fighting with those who argue that there is something immoral about offering Gardasil to our “innocent children”, and especially fighting the scientific ignorance of Michelle Bachmann insinuating that Gardasil just gives kids mental retardation.
Hopefully, nobody will take their medical advice from a politician from the legal profession.
I would vote for Perry over Obama though I admittedly don’t like the guys instincts much. My objection is to executive orders by state and federal executives making themselves the default caregivers of Americas children.
I object to his EO in this case, although given that the vaccine law gave the authority to the executive to determine which vaccines should be covered, and given that the legislature was out of session, I can “understand” why he did the EO.
the thing that bothers me most at this time with Perry is a sense I have that he is stubborn. Where Bush would never defend anything he did, Perry seems intent on defending everything. His fight when the EO objections were raised showed a bit of that; I would have hoped he would have figured out more quickly that he had screwed up.
But we also like that in our candidates. People like Sarah Palin because she says what she means and she doesn’t back down. Of course, she never makes a mistake, so there’s no need for her to back down. :-)
Amigo (”amigo” since I judge you not on how you spell your name), your reading ability is in serious need of improvement.
You clearly only skimmed my post, and missed the 2/3rds pf content of that post.
Your glibness we see applies not just to the words you type, but to the words you read. You speak glibly, and read skimmingly.
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