Perry calls idea of U.S.-Mexico border wall ‘ridiculous’

MSNBC ^ | August 17, 2011 | Sarah Blackwill and Domenico Montanaro

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Rick Perry called the idea of a wall across the entire U.S.-Mexico border “ridiculous” today in a stop in New Hampshire.

“You got strategic fencing in some of the metropolitan areas – it’s very helpful,” the Texas governor said. “But the idea that you’re going to build a wall from Brownsville to El Paso is just -- it’s ridiculous on its face.”

That was in the context of Perry saying how he'd asked Washington for 1,000 National Guard troops and how current efforts at border security are ineffective.

Perry swatted at the Obama administration’s assertion that the “border is safer than it’s ever been.”

“Six week ago, the president went to El Paso and sai the border is safer than it’s ever been,” Perry began. “I have no idea, maybe he was talking about the Canadian border. I will assure you one thing, if I’m president of the United States, the border will be secure.”

[HKMk23]

What would be the problem with building a manned fence from Brownsville to San Diego?

The problem with building a fence is that, although it stops casual crossings, it isn't a significant deterrent to efforts to cross the border, and it can't be erected as a "set it and forget it" solution. Any kind of fence you might build would have to be maintained, and it would have to be monitored 24/7/365 by surveillance methods that, either directly or indirectly involve human agents who are both in position, and equipped to make interdiction.

In more urban or suburban areas, fences are effective at stopping casual crossings, but a cursory scan of headlines going back over the past several years will net you story after story of tunnels being discovered crossing the international border, and you just can't set a fence foundation deep enough to stop that. You make it 100 feet deep, and you'll find tunnels at 110.

To be quite honest, I wanted a fence myself for several years, but consideration of the manpower issue has set me back off of that idea in all but populous areas. You look at the Berlin Wall; as impenetrable as that thing was, it still had to be manned 24/7/365 along its entire length. Who are we fooling to think that a border fence constructed with opposite intent would require any lesser degree of monitoring? Yes, so the bulk of monitoring function could be wired electronics and sensors, but the glaring reality is that all of those sensors can be set in place without a fence to hang them on, and they all still need to report status to some adequate number of human beings tasked with monitoring them and responding to breaches.

Since that is the reality of the situation, I think it would be smarter to just put the well-equipped humans in position 24/7/365, set up arrays of solar-powered sensors to give them real-time information about border activity, and forego the expense of erecting thousands of miles of fencing. If we did it that way, we could even get a good number of tree huggers on-board with tougher border enforcement because these methods don't create a conspicuous eyesore that slices across the landscape.

Finally, human monitors could be dispatched to the border in a matter of days, and sensor networks emplaced and functioning in a matter of weeks. By contrast, there is no reason to hope that a government-built fence — eve if it were begun today — would be complete by the time my toddler graduates High School.

The bottom line is this: Gov. Perry isn't out of his tree in dismissing the idea of fencing off the entire southern border; the arguments backing him up are pretty compelling, and that is something you've got to admit even if you don't come to the same conclusion that he has.

[Little Ray]

And lots of concertina wire.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

A small fence separates densely populated Tijuana, Mexico, right, from the United States in the Border Patrol's San Diego Sector. Construction is underway to extend a secondary fence over the top of this hill and eventually to the Pacific Ocean.

El Paso (foreground) and Juarez (background) are on the front line of a border war between law enforcement and Mexican cartels.

Nogales, Arizona - Nogales, Sonora

Members of the Mexican Federal Police guard over 105 tonnes of marijuana in the border town of Tijuana, Mexico. Mexico's largest ever haul of packaged marijuana could be even more than an estimated 105 tonnes and was likely taken from the Sinaloa drug gang - Oct 2010.

Rio Grand River Gorge

Rio Grande River, international border, Texas

A recently constructed section of the controversial US-Mexico border fence expansion project crosses previously pristine desert sands at sunrise on March 14, 2009 between Yuma, Arizona and Calexico, California. A top Homeland Security official told a House panel that the department could ultimately respond to escalating violence of warring Mexican drug cartels by deploying military personnel and equipment to the region. 6,290 people were killed in the violence in Mexico in 2008, according to Mexican officials, and more than 1,000 in the first eight weeks of this year. Hundreds of kidnappings in Phoenix during the same time period were blamed on the drug trade. The new barrier between the US and Mexico stands 15 feet tall and sits on top of the sand so it can lifted by a machine and repositioned whenever the migrating desert dunes begin to bury it. The almost seven miles of floating fence cost about $6 million per mile to build.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Yes good fences make good neighbors.

[mad_as_he$$]

I have family that lives as far South in Texas as you can. I know the area well. I have solutions for the water issue. I am not posting them anywhere because I expect they will be worth money at some point. Yes, some of the farm(ranch) land would be lost on our side. Small trade off for border security. People loose property to eminent domain every day in this country. It sucks but is usually good for the great number of people.

Have you watched the show Border Wars on Nat Geo? They have several episodes about patrolling the river. Very ineffective.

[TigersEye]

• Deport illegal aliens on contact with LE.
• Enforce the law vigorously on employers of illegals.
• Strong border security. Build the physical fence and use high-tech surveillance.
• Eliminate entitlements for illegal aliens except for true emergency care.
• End the "anchor baby" policy.

Do those things and illegal aliens would deport themselves muy pronto!

Points 1,2,4 & 5 would probably make the fence nearly unnecessary. Would Perry or any other pol be willing to do them?

[Prokopton]

I am NOT in favor of open borders, but I am against either a wall or a fence for technical reasons and because of the expense.

What percentage of the "stimulus" would have effectively sealed our border? And all money that would have been spent in the U.S.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I didn’t say get rid of CA, I just said let’s wall it off and only let certain people out. Look how the granola eating, environmental whining, animal rights socialists have spread across the continent!! First to AZ and OR and WA, then on to NM, CO....and so on.....YIKES!

[TigersEye]

Rio Grand River Gorge

That's about 10 miles NW of Taos, NM. Doesn't have much to do with the Mexican border.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

And secure the border.

End the "anchor baby" policy

This one seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Thanks. It wasn’t real descriptive. But it does give a good idea of a lot of open nothing and rugged terrain.

[TigersEye]

FWIW I think quite a bit of the Rio Grande between TX and Mexico is also rather difficult terrain. If you're ever near Taos though it is worth driving out to see the Rio Grande Gorge.

Rio Grande Gorge Bridge

Walking out on the bridge and looking down is fun. You can feel the bridge vibrate as cars and trucks go by behind you.

[Puckster]

It is ridiculous....put up the Aerostat system that Lockheed Martin builds.

This would allow a far deeper notification of illegals attempting to cross the border than a wall provides.

I can give a noticeable advance on intel that can preposition assets to meet the intruders.

A wall only tries to keep them out at the border itself.

It's a tethered blimp with all weather intel packages that can provide foreknowledge as to what is happening.

This is smart....not a wall.

And no, I don't own any LM stock.

[Cheetahcat]

What does Texas spend on these Border felons,How many Billions???

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Walking out on the bridge and looking down is fun. You can feel the bridge vibrate as cars and trucks go by behind you.

LOL. I like the view from this angle. We do take a lot of road trips around the U.S. This looks like a good trip idea. Thanks.

[Polybius]

Perry’s right.. we should however set up about a two mile wide DMZ, razor wire ans shoot anything coming across. .... Right, but it should include a mine field as well. We have kept illegal aliens out of South Korea for more than 50 years. We can keep them out of the US as well.

The Korean DMZ is 160 miles wide. The U.S. Mexican border is 1,969 miles.

I've had personal experience with mine fields as a result of my Navy tour at Guantanamo and minefields extract a high cost.

First of all, minefields are Equal Opportunity and blow up anything that wanders into them from drunk American sailors who don't see the minefield signs at night (a tragic incident before my tour when sailors off a visiting warship accidentally wandered into the mine fields) to any stray animals (deer in Cuba or cattle in Texas).

Secondly, mine fields are high maintenance. They need actual American servicemen to go in there and keep it serviceable. I had a several Minefield Maintenance Marines come into my Sick Call, their nerves shot, begging me to give them a medical excuse to change duties.

Thirdly, Minefield Maintenance sh#t happens. One Marine on Minefield Maintenence was flow into my ER, legs blown off below the groin by a Bouncing Betty that he accidentally activated. No, he did not make it.

Minefields may sound really cool in theory but they are extremely nasty things in real life.

Ain't gonna happen on the U.S. border.

Marine Barracks Minefield Maintenance personnel unload deactivated anti-tank and anti-personnel land mines for destruction at a demolition site on Naval Station Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, March 18, 1997

[Cheetahcat]

"They're constantly finding these too."

Look the can mine the entire sea with listening devices,it would be a simple matter to keep tabs on the earth, beneath the wall!

[Cheetahcat]

Giving OUR country away to the third world,Is a NON Starter for me.

America is for Americans!

[Cincinatus' Wife]

If “they” can keep tabs on what’s going on UNDER the ground, they can damn well know what’s going on above the ground without building a 2000 mile wall across the continent.

[jbp1]

ever see one of these?

http://www.city-data.com/picfilesc/picc27696.php

‘its the wall we are looking for’