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To: discostu
"They aren’t lacking a precise sequence, they’re lacking any sequence. They don’t know what was done to kill the kid at all, and they don’t know when it happened at all, and they can’t put anybody’s hands on the unknown action that killed the kid."

Not true, but you are still missing the point. There does not have to be a scientific test showing a connection between Casey and the cause of death to get a conviction.

"To get a murder conviction the prosecution needs to be able to say “person X did action Y at around time T which lead to the death of the victim”."

No, they don't. The prosecution needs to present sufficient evidence to show that person X caused the death. That evidence *does not have to be forensics*.

"It DOES matter how she did it. Because if you can’t say how she did it you can’t say beyond a reasonable doubt THAT she did it."

As I've been saying, that is simply wrong. But it is the same error that I believe the jury made and resulted in their verdict. It is what the defense told them.

How she did it is not a required element. You can be sure she did it without knowing the precise method if all the other evidence says she must have done it.

"Reasonable doubt doesn’t require the defense to have a good explanation, it just needs the prosecution to not have a good explanation."

I never said the defense had to provide one. But there does have to be room for one. If there's no other reasonable explanation then there's no reasonable doubt.

"They tried to convict on guy instinct, and while I agree with that guy instinct that ain’t evidence."

No, they tried to convict on the evidence, but the jury didn't understand that all that evidence counted and it was their job to make reasonable inferences from it. They thought it should work like it does on CSI.

258 posted on 07/12/2011 1:28:19 PM PDT by mlo
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To: mlo

No it is true. I’ve got the point just fine. I’m not asking for a scientific test. I’m pointing out that if you can’t prove the cause of death you can’t proved WHO caused the death. It’s just that simple, any thinking otherwise is simply wrong.


260 posted on 07/12/2011 1:35:37 PM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
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To: mlo

See look, straight from one of the juror’s mouths:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/casey_anthony_trial/casey-anthony-jury-suspicious-george-anthony-trial/story?id=14050196
“As with other jurors who have been interviewed, the foreman said the panel was unconvinced by the evidence that Casey Anthony, 25, murdered her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee — and was not even certain that a murder was committed.

“We don’t know the cause of death,” the juror said. “Everything was speculation.” “

See that’s what happens when you can’t manage to list a cause of death. Without cause of death it could have been an accident, without cause of death you don’t have an active verb, without cause of death everything is speculation. Speculation doesn’t give you “beyond a reasonable doubt”.


262 posted on 07/12/2011 2:07:21 PM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
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To: mlo

In a way, it’s sort of like when a new heavenly object is first detected.

You can’t actually see it, but you know it’s there.

You see it’s gravitational impact on it’s neighbors.

You may even see light distorted from other objects farther away than it is.

Taking all the evidence into consideration, it’s there.

In the Casey Anthony case, in the end, only one person could have done it. When she said it was an accident, after making other claims prior to that, the gig was up. Whatever happened, happened at her hand. You couple that with not wanting the police involved. You check the condition of the body. You realize what her social activity was, the celebratory nature of it, the tattoo. Looking up information just prior to the kid’s disappearance.

In the end, there’s simply no other conclusion to be had.

I think of it like little spheres circling Casey, each showing the influence of her gravitational pull. At a certain point, the conclusion is obvious without a shadow of a doubt.


263 posted on 07/12/2011 2:16:33 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
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To: mlo

I should have added one more thought.

You also notice an important observation at some point, that all those objects floating around Casey, aren’t floating around anyone else. None of them.


264 posted on 07/12/2011 2:18:56 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
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To: mlo
It's obvious you get this, but some other people sure don't.

This gets to be rather absurd actually.  Think people, think!


Scenario/reaction


Dad kills Kaylee, you call the police
Mom kills Kaylee, you call the police
Ex-husband kills Kaylee, you call the police
Neighbor kills Kaylee, you call the police
Baby-sitter kills Kaylee, you call the police
Stranger kills Kaylee, you call the police
You don't know who killed Kaylee, you call the police
Kaylee dies of accidental drowning, you call 911 and the police
Kaylee dies of some other accident, you call 911 and the police

You kill Kaylee...  (insert the sound of a needle skipping groves across the album)


Could the exact time exhonerate Casey?

Under the scenario Casey claimed, no.  It was an accident.

Would it make a difference if the accident took place at 12:01 am?
Would it make a difference if the accident took place at 09:01 am?
Would it make a difference if the accident took place at any other time of the day?

You kill Kaylee...  (insert the sound of a needle skipping groves across the album)


Does it actually affect what you do in these cases if the method is different?

If she died by strangulation, would it change the reaction?
If she died of gunshot, would it change the reaction?
If she died of a dog mauling, would it change the reaction?
If she died in her sleep, would it change the reaction?
If she died in the pool, would it change the reactions?
If her throat were slit, would it change the reaction?
If she were hit by a car, would it change the reaction?
If she fell off a counter, would it change the reaction?
If she fell off her bike, would it change the raction?
If she died in her sleep, would it change the reaction?

You kill Kaylee...  (insert sound of needle skipping groves across the album)


She claims it was an accident... and what happened?

(insert sound of needle skipping groves across the album)


Murder one Danno.

265 posted on 07/12/2011 2:50:52 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
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